exactly.

and im here to eat all the beans in lemmygrad’s pantry

fun fact: trans megathread hit 1337 comments and the server crashed. coincidence? i think not

Do you want me to insult you? Or is the civility only supposed to go one way?

I explained to you that debating a lived experience of a minority is not how you go about this. It always ends in this. I even explained how to do better. Did you not comprehend that?

It feels like you’re treating the Hexbear downvoted removal as if it’s the same as what’s happening here. I don’t see the similarities.

Almost every single post and comment in LG has 1-6 downvotes, from federated instances, always.

Sometimes a bot gets spun up that slams 30-60 downvotes for a day or so, until they get blocked or the instance gets banned.

I fail to see how this doesn’t help lemmygrad. Downvotes would not be federated, so they wouldn’t affect your feed. If someone from lemmy.world or lemmy.ml sees those posts, they will still see the downvotes on their end because those admins havent purged the downvotes. Unless there is some sort of new spam feature that I’m not aware of.

These users are constantly spinning up new accounts, and trying again. If they weren’t able to do that, what kind of harassment would they move on to?

Apples to oranges. Its easier to harass people with downvotes. DMs and comments are less common. And for the record, if I could precog and shoot them through the monitor, I would. Until we get communist precog tech, you’d need to have some sort of way to screen spam and dms and comments from new accounts as that is the bulk of issues. When it comes to targeted harassment, being able to allowlist certain people or instances to dm you is good, and it would also be good to have a hashlist for removing shock content. As an example for an allowlist, maybe if you ever upvoted someone, it could be an option to have that as a dm allowlist.

Luckily I have only experienced DM harassment on hexbear twice, both users were banned within 10 minutes. Still needs an improvement, I did not need to see that dick.

This is a different instance, with different conditions, and if I wanted to have an hb account I would.

If you’re worried about the site culture, the site culture of hexbear and blahaj are very different and remained roughly the same as before, minus downvote harassment.

I see it as endorsing a vector of harassment against trans people. It has happened before and it will happen again. You can act like its small, but small things build up and cause trans people to be shunned from spaces.

As in my example, an endorsement is small. But a liberal cannot even handle that. Lots of he/hims in my replies though, fun detail.

At this point I hope hexbear defederates from lemmygrad. The civility fetishism here is absolutely disgusting.

This is why I don’t want Lemmygrad to become like Hexbear - these interactions hurt my feelings and stress me out.

Good. Now you know even a modicum of what it feels like to stand up against liberals who run in, argue against your lived experience, and shut you down when you get angry over their precious ‘civility’. Now, think about some of the shit I’ve been through. I’ve had to fucking beg gays in LGBT orgs for years to even get an endorsement of a trans organization. Not even funding, not even material support! An endorsement! And when you become indignant when they won’t even do that, of course they are excited to talk down to you about civility. You have no fucking clue how angry civility fetishism makes me. (and for the record, I hate the Human Rights Campaign, their argument was that our area wasnt ready for trans issues to be publicized in any way and were afraid to stick their necks out for us)

Proactive moderation is better than reactive moderation. We should be improving the tools at our disposal to hedge the worst impulses of social media. As a matter of fact, a proactive approach to this conversation to begin with is not to debate me from the outset, but to ask questions and consider what tools would be better than just removing downvotes. There were some people that went into this line of thinking, but its ultimately unsatisfactory (re: keeping downvotes and showing who is downvoting still can make a user aware they are being harassed. it is better remove vectors of harassment and then focus on the core of what makes a community a community, and usually that is comments).

Edit: seems like you’re ok with downvotes now. Why the change?

awh, are you sad? are you feeling harassed? its almost like they should be removed.

Weren’t you the loser that demanded I be ‘respectful’ when I say we should do something about harassment? Have you ever considered that people get angry whenever they suggest, through lived experience, that something decreases harassment, and then you debatelord over it?

Even blahaj can get this shit right, what a fucking joke that you can’t think to be better than a liberal

Also, I’m not, and I hope no one else would, go over to hexbear and demand they make changes, and start fights with everyone. We have our own site rules, and one of them is to be respectful to other comrades here. If you can’t disagree without being respectful, we won’t hesitate to issue temp bans.

I sat here pondering on how to write this to you, but I think I’m talking to a brick wall. It should be noted that I have extensive history in dealing with trans spaces in social media and I think hexbear is the only place that has gotten it right, though there is still room for improvement (re: better mod tools and automation). I’m on the mod team for /c/traa, and I also run an irl LGBT org almost singlehandedly (I work with the trans community in our area and redirect them to resources). I recently helped a woman IRL that had her parents spiral into a reactionary frenzy due to social media and the result was predictable. Any reduction in the harassment campaign against us is of critical importance, and I am emphatically demanding that you consider what I have said here, as it is very likely that I simply just know more than you.

I also gotta tell you, in the kindest way possible, you need to shut the fuck up about civility when talking to someone from any minority group. It makes you look like a liberal and it is a bad look.

I’ve been here long enough that I have absolutely observed it as a problem here, yes.

Removing the ability to downvote means we can no longer downvote transphobic content. Instead, it might have +10 upvotes since you disabled downvotes, and now you have to see it and be appalled by the lack of downvotes, and engage with it.

Transphobic content should be removed and banned, not downvoted. And users from minority groups should have their concerns taken seriously, not banned.

This is the goal of big tech in removing downvotes: to platform reactionary content, make it ambiguous whether or not its popular, then force engagement through ragebait. Not anything we want to replicate here.

So you think hexbear is platforming reactionary content? After all, the stated reason of removing downvotes was to explicitly stop harassment of vulnerable users. Do you consider that to be a railroad to reactionary thought?

This is a massive problem on twitter and youtube especially, platforming the worst content, making it seem popular (and often driving it to the top), and making you stress and think about how to respond, because you have no ability to quickly downvote it. Probably ruins untold numbers of people’s psychological well-being.

The biggest problem with youtube is its algorithm and how little hateful content is removed, not whether or not you can downvote things.

Edit: it looks like you’ve been banned from Lemmygrad

Lemmygrad is a shit instance if they can’t handle basic discussion about trans people being harassed and think the correct decision is to ban the trans people who have an issue.

They aren’t, its a sensationalist reactionary headline. The summit says this

> Last month (in April 2023), the Global Methane Hub collaborated with the Ministries of Agriculture of Chile and Spain to convene the first-ever global ministerial on agricultural practices to reduce methane emissions. The ministerial brought together high-ranking government members to share global perspectives on methane reduction and low-emission food systems. The gathering led to a statement in which the nations committed to support efforts to improve the quality and quantity of, and access to, finance for climate change adaptation and mitigation measures in the agriculture and food sectors and to collaborate on efforts aimed at lowering methane emissions in agriculture and food systems

So they are hoping to reduce methane in farming, which could include no longer raising animals that have high methane outputs, or finding a better way to raise them with reduced methane.

they had to make a transphobic joke in there didnt they 🙃

we call this running on queer time. we are actually 99% queer but we all were striving to be fashionably late

29% trans 🎉 and i forgot to reply lol my bad

except for supporting our trans comrades 💖

yeah im most impressed with what cuba is doing lately. im gonna recontact the cubans i talked to in a year or so to see what the limits there are to the lgbt legislation there. they basically granted every major demand the LGBT community put forward there, legally speaking. but i wonder most about enforcement, and i also wonder if there will be new unforeseen issues that arise or that most lgbt communities havent considered now that all the demands are met.

im talking about trans issues right now because ive personally talked to other trans people there. from what i understand in asia generally trans people have it slightly better socially than gay people for a variety of reasons

thats the thing though, is it oppression if they have no clue about you or what being trans even is? is it oppression by that country if other countries, which have expertise, arent providing aid and training for doctors on handling trans patients? i could see it as being a different aspect of life but i wouldnt feel comfortable comparing it to life in america, which is like living in hell because we are the preeminent culture war issue

and for the record, china does have trans healthcare in larger cities like shanghai and beijing, but there is a staffing issue, not enough docs with trans training which is again an issue of lack of awareness

youre pretty fucking weird. being trans sucks everywhere right now, almost equally except for in certain areas like florida where theyre doing genocide. at least in china they dont have a media circus shitting on us 24/7, and theyre not doing genocide like florida, so its quite a bit better than the USA. the USSR pioneered many trans surgeries for trans men in, iirc, Latvia, actually.

cuba is probably the best place for trans people in the world right now though, which again isnt saying much. the issue with cuba is they dont have enough docs for trans affirming care, though based on the cuban trans people ive talked to that is being resolved. trans healthcare is free there and with the new constitution, by law cuba has the best protections for LGBT people in the world.

youre just misinformed about, well, everything, really, and never talked with LGBT people in other countries.