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Coming to that conclusion from what I said isn’t very smart.

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idk, I’m conflicted on this one. Being a ML and looking at the current Socialist states you got the Ministry of Public Security, or Ministry of State Security. I don’t like libs either, but I think this is more about having dissatisfaction of having the institutions challenged. Like obviously the FBI sucks ass and never should be given the light of day, but the conceptual institution I think is a staple of any state organization.

gotta love Hakim

k.

“Why would a marxist leninist think the state should control currency” said the smart man.

Alright man, fine, I don’t know how to convince you, whom I assume is a communist, that having a private entity maintain transactions is the dumbest fucking idea in the world. You do you I guess. Like Marx 95. Remedial Communism shit.

Okay, so VeChain as I understand it is mostly just a distributed ledger with a currency attached to it. Honestly I think dlt’s and blockchain are interesting tech, they aren’t inherent to cryptocurrency and could be applied to other functions though like new digital medical records for instance. Why is there a currency even attached to vechain other than to commodify it? It could just be a digital ledger.

XRP literally even says they function basically as SWIFT but ripple the company, it’s not XRP is the one that does it, XRP is just their vbucks they use as the middle man. It’s basically ETH but the ripple protocol manages the servers that host DLTs rather than trusted stake holders, the service is only fast because of the fees one company makes on transactions. It’s basically visa, but with crypto access. The only reason this service exists is as a function of cryptocurrency… like I mentioned.

Amp and Flexa only exist if you’re trying to buy things with multiple currencies all at once. You understand what my problem is right?

All of these services only exist to justify cryptocurrency’s existence. WHY DOES CRYPTOCURRENCY NEED TO EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE?!

XRP just fills the gap of SWIFT because SWIFT doesn’t recognize the validity of cryptocurrency, there is no reason that implementation could not be added, ripple just didn’t need international consent.

VeChain’s function could be replicated without a financial aspect as the asset of vechain isn’t even the coin, it’s a ledger. It doesn’t require currency, the currency just exists to make an excuse for the creators of vechain to host the service rather than have it be self hosted. The crypto-currency part just seems like a way to commodify it into a rent service when it could just be a free protocol. Like ssh. I just don’t see the financial aspects of cryptocurrency being valuable.

Alright fine, you win. I obviously can’t win with some one who thinks all modes of trade are ponzi schemes.

You’re right, I didn’t mean commodity, I meant ownership, thanks for pointing that out.

What services are offered? Please give me examples, because the kinds of services I have seen advertised are all specifically only services because the crypto market exists in the first place, self servicing. Like acting as a 1 to 1 currency with stable coins, that still fail. Or coins that give you some kind of game asset that wouldn’t existed if the system wasn’t there in the first place. And honestly give me examples, I asked for a book or something to reference and it was totally ignored. I want to actually engage you on this, I don’t really give a shit if I’m wrong. I don’t have any crypto, I was interested in it and I read white papers for bitcoin and eth back in the day, and did some purchases and was utterly unconvinced, but please I insist actually give me a reference for me to address.

Here’s the definition of a ponzi scheme from Investor.gov: A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that pays existing investors with funds collected from new investors. Ponzi schemes are named after Charles Ponzi. In the 1920s, Ponzi promised investors a 50% return within a few months for what he claimed was an investment in international mail coupons. Ponzi used funds from new investors to pay fake “returns” to earlier investors.

Crypto is literally exactly that but with electronic payments. That’s it, there is no service, there is no asset, there is no ownership without access, there is no value outside YOUR ability to resell it at a profit. THAT is a PONZI SCHEME. There’s no commodity to be gained like a stock, no institutional backing with fucking guns like a fiat currency. If you made money using crypto, cool, I congratulate you.

Regardless of whether you are benefiting or not doesn’t stop it from being a scam, and shit I’ll even contend it’s probably more ethical capital accumulation than grenading bank wagons like Stalin did.

A. I definitely have probably a more defined understanding of politics and their relation to economy than most people in the world as I’m a political scientist working towards a doctorate in system science, which by definition is the field of understanding structures of all systems. Please give me a book and I’ll try and find time to read it.

B. I didn’t say no one could participate in crypto, I just was trying to point out it is a ponzi scheme. You can make money on a ponzi scheme, otherwise they wouldn’t exist, it just depends on how you enter the space.

C. The reason financial crashes aren’t stopped by institutions in the past is that financial crashes created huge opportunities for the rich to purchase assets on discount so there is no incentive to stop them in capitalist systems.

D. I invest in stocks, shit I’ve a few hundred dollars in Yuan, I am not saying don’t make money if you can. I am saying do not pretend it is anything other than a clever manipulation of finance, because it’s not. The second capitalist structures are no longer hegemonic, crypto finance should be targeted with prejudice.

When you buy a stock, you technically own value in a for realsies asset in a for realsies company that produce for realsies commodities or services, the value is inherent in the service or products. The only value in crypto is line goes up, and line only goes up if people believe line goes up, but people don’t always believe line goes up. When line goes down, the only thing that saves it is the desperate cries of crypto asset holders begging everyone to hold their positions so their volatility stabilizes. Honestly it’s fucking amazing how well this has worked for years through sheer force of collective delusional financial ignorance. But a seperated economy that crashes more than the regular economy is not a place to put any faith… also why would communists want unregulated banking? How the fuck would resources be properly tracked and efficiency measured?

It’s almost like crypto is only valuable if other people give a shit, whereas actual commodities have inherent value.

If you think this is as bad as the economy is going to get, wait until the housing market crashes this year, then still have faith in these bourgeoisie financial systems literally designed to Fuck You.

It’s not, I just didn’t think I had to explain the problem with systems of private capital to communists. I do understand the differences between the types. I understand not all of them are mining coins, but that wasn’t my point really. There is no product, or service, crypto is essentially stored “work”(scientific definition sense) that you can convince idiots is valuable for more capital than you purchased it for. Even though none of the actual “work” is stored and the purchaser literally just bought the difference of an imaginary asset.

Shit even I learned that from Zinn in The People’s History of the United States. Hopefully more of my fellow white socialists start reading leftist theory from POC from around the world. Hell how many people here know that in the grave next to Marx in London is another grave of a comrade, Claudia Jones. Unfortunately she also had to deal with white socialist bullshit, but she she was placed next to Marx, and I think that’s special. There’s a great biography on her called “Left of Marx” if interested. The book kinda all over the place but it was interesting.

Crypto is literally a ponzi scheme and will implode on itself, it’s weird having to tell this to people who call themselves communists. It’s literally just a new stock in how much can I tax the power grid and sell back the difference. You can make a shit load of money, but it is only really valuable especially with alt coin when you have enough capital to swing prices slightly enough to cause a spike then sell.

As a Yank, I can safely say we are no longer alone in that attitude as our greatest export seems to be that exact dumb personality. Sorry.

Thank you for your democratic support comrade nancy lol