No, that’s not what I said. I said exports to outside the USSR should have been halted.
Which would result in people starving in other parts of USSR. So, yes that is what you’re actually advocating for here without having the intellectual honesty to admit it.
Okay, there’s no consensus on whether the famine was an intentional genocide or not, but there’s some evidence that it was caused by failed policies of the USSR.
There is literally no evidence to suggest that the famine was in any way intentional. However, nobody is disputing the fact that failure of policy contributed to the famine.
Maybe because a lot of advances were made on food production (outside of the USSR) and a lot of reforms were made within the USSR that introduced market-economy elements (perestroika) and increased government transparency (glasnost)?
You’re incredibly historically ignorant. Much has been written on the subject and you should try to at least minimally educate yourself on the subject you’re attempting to debate. Also, go look up when perestroika and glasnost happened to see just how utterly absurd you’re being. Here are some starting resources for you.
USSR doubled life expectancy in just 20 years. A newborn child in 1926-27 had a life expectancy of 44.4 years, up from 32.3 years thirty years before. In 1958-59 the life expectancy for newborns went up to 68.6 years. the Semashko system of the USSR increased lifespan by 50% in 20 years. By the 1960’s, lifespans in the USSR were comparable to those in the USA:
Quality of nutrition improved after the Soviet revolution, and even CIA data suggests they ate just as much as Americans after WW2 peroid while having better nutrition:
The Soviet Union had the highest physician/patient ratio in the world. USSR had 42 doctors per 10,000 population compared to 24 in Denmark and Sweden, and 19 in US:
Professor of Economic History, Robert C. Allen, concludes in his study without the 1917 revolution is directly responsible for rapid growth that made the achievements listed above possilbe:
Study demonstrating the steady increase in quality of life during the Soviet period (including under Stalin). Includes the fact that Soviet life expectancy grew faster than any other nation recorded at the time:
A large study using world bank data analyzing the quality of life in Capitalist vs Socialist countries and finds overwhelmingly at similar levels of development with socialism bringing better quality of life:
This study compared capitalist and socialist countries in measures of the physical quality of life (PQL), taking into account the level of economic development.
Explain exactly how halting food exports to places that aren’t part of the USSR would starve people in the USSR.
The study I linked explains it in detail. You obviously didn’t bother reading it.
In order to oust the ‘kulaks’ as a class, the resistance of this class must be smashed in open battle and it must be deprived of the productive sources of its existence and development. … That is a turn towards the policy of eliminating the kulaks as a class.
Doesn’t say what you think it says. Go read up on who the kulaks were and what they were doing. Also, please show me concrete policy from the Soviet leadership that shows intent to create a famine in Ukraine.
That doesn’t say anything about the degree of qualification of such doctors.
Life expectancy in USSR clearly demonstrates that the doctors were perfectly qualified.
Also, you’re linking to a lot of studies. I need to know, how can reliable data be obtained from places under totalitarian regimes? Is it possible?
A lot of the data actually comes from western sources. And you’re once again showing your utter ignorance about USSR by calling it a totalitarian regime. It is also possible that you’re just an ignoramus with an agenda.
I read a lot, but 99% of what I read is related to free software.
Then you might want to stick to discussions about software as opposed to domains you have no knowledge of. You’re just spreading misinformation and wasting other people’s time when you engage in subjects you have no understanding of.
There are tons of other factors at play, healthcare is not all there is to it.
Sure, people in USSR also had better nutrition, better work life balance, and so on. The point here is that your statement that USSR somehow had to learn from liberals to improve its conditions is absolute nonsense.
Many of the people in the comments of that Quora post also grew up in the USSR.
You might want to read up on the concept of selection bias. Vast majority of people who lived in USSR prefer the old system:
I don’t think Communism by itself is a bad idea (it’s not good, but not bad either), I just think it’s always been poorly applied.
Given that it lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty and provided them with necessities of life, I disagree. And the context here is that every communist experiment exists under duress from capitalist powers bent on destroying it. Seems like communism has done pretty well given that context.
Think about it: as soon as the working class takes power, it turns into the new bourgeoisie, except it’s not money but power what they’re after.
This is precisely the kind of falsehood I’m talking about. This is a demonstrably false claim. USSR had no generational wealth, and maximum pay was capped at 9x lowest pay. Politicians weren’t even highest paid people. Highest paying careers were in art and science. All the leaders of USSR came from common working class families. Instead of making stuff up, why not read some history?
This is a perfect example of a claim that’s misinformed.
Which would result in people starving in other parts of USSR. So, yes that is what you’re actually advocating for here without having the intellectual honesty to admit it.
There is literally no evidence to suggest that the famine was in any way intentional. However, nobody is disputing the fact that failure of policy contributed to the famine.
You’re incredibly historically ignorant. Much has been written on the subject and you should try to at least minimally educate yourself on the subject you’re attempting to debate. Also, go look up when perestroika and glasnost happened to see just how utterly absurd you’re being. Here are some starting resources for you.
USSR doubled life expectancy in just 20 years. A newborn child in 1926-27 had a life expectancy of 44.4 years, up from 32.3 years thirty years before. In 1958-59 the life expectancy for newborns went up to 68.6 years. the Semashko system of the USSR increased lifespan by 50% in 20 years. By the 1960’s, lifespans in the USSR were comparable to those in the USA:
Quality of nutrition improved after the Soviet revolution, and even CIA data suggests they ate just as much as Americans after WW2 peroid while having better nutrition:
GDP took off after socialism was established and then collapsed with the reintroduction of capitalism:
The Soviet Union had the highest physician/patient ratio in the world. USSR had 42 doctors per 10,000 population compared to 24 in Denmark and Sweden, and 19 in US:
Professor of Economic History, Robert C. Allen, concludes in his study without the 1917 revolution is directly responsible for rapid growth that made the achievements listed above possilbe:
Study demonstrating the steady increase in quality of life during the Soviet period (including under Stalin). Includes the fact that Soviet life expectancy grew faster than any other nation recorded at the time:
A large study using world bank data analyzing the quality of life in Capitalist vs Socialist countries and finds overwhelmingly at similar levels of development with socialism bringing better quality of life:
This study compared capitalist and socialist countries in measures of the physical quality of life (PQL), taking into account the level of economic development.
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The study I linked explains it in detail. You obviously didn’t bother reading it.
Doesn’t say what you think it says. Go read up on who the kulaks were and what they were doing. Also, please show me concrete policy from the Soviet leadership that shows intent to create a famine in Ukraine.
Life expectancy in USSR clearly demonstrates that the doctors were perfectly qualified.
A lot of the data actually comes from western sources. And you’re once again showing your utter ignorance about USSR by calling it a totalitarian regime. It is also possible that you’re just an ignoramus with an agenda.
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It pretty clear that you don’t read much of anything.
Ah yes, I guess people living in USSR were just ubermensch who are naturally healthier and didn’t need good healthcare to live longer.
I literally grew up in USSR, but sure tell me more about what my life there was really like.
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Then you might want to stick to discussions about software as opposed to domains you have no knowledge of. You’re just spreading misinformation and wasting other people’s time when you engage in subjects you have no understanding of.
Sure, people in USSR also had better nutrition, better work life balance, and so on. The point here is that your statement that USSR somehow had to learn from liberals to improve its conditions is absolute nonsense.
You might want to read up on the concept of selection bias. Vast majority of people who lived in USSR prefer the old system:
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Given that it lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty and provided them with necessities of life, I disagree. And the context here is that every communist experiment exists under duress from capitalist powers bent on destroying it. Seems like communism has done pretty well given that context.
This is precisely the kind of falsehood I’m talking about. This is a demonstrably false claim. USSR had no generational wealth, and maximum pay was capped at 9x lowest pay. Politicians weren’t even highest paid people. Highest paying careers were in art and science. All the leaders of USSR came from common working class families. Instead of making stuff up, why not read some history?
This is a perfect example of a claim that’s misinformed.