Probably because it’s not free (as in freedom) software. https://olvid.io/faq/is-olvid-open-source/

EDIT: the downvote wasn’t mine.

which is not so much later than western Empires like France

FYI, France is located on the East, if I understand correctly.

−100,000 social credits for posting this.

You have descended to Western imperialist traitor of the Great Nation.

Emacs.

(For some things I prefer Eclipse.)

Except that’s a false narrative because the party is not some exclusive club. Anyone is free to join the party and participate. That’s how any democracy works. People who want to participate can participate freely.

The thing is, how much power do you have even when being part of the Party? Think about how the Outer and Inner Party members in Nineteen Eighty-Four were basically two completely different social classes. Also, think about the peer pressure, fear culture and excessive propaganda and brainwashing within the Party.

Meanwhile, not sure what this absurd amount of power the party had over the rest of the population that you’re referring to. Again, you have absolutely no clue what life in USSR was actually like and you continue to argue with somebody who lived there.

You’re not the only one who lived in the USSR. Again, many people in the comments of that Quora post also lived there, some of them which are probably older than you. They’re telling a different story to yours.

This is precisely the kind of falsehood I’m talking about. This is a demonstrably false claim. USSR had no generational wealth, and maximum pay was capped at 9x lowest pay. Politicians weren’t even highest paid people. Highest paying careers were in art and science. All the leaders of USSR came from common working class families. Instead of making stuff up, why not read some history?

You missed the part where I said it’s power rather than money what they’re after. They turn into their own social class: The Party. The amount of power they have over the rest of the population (The Non-Party) is absurd.

Then you might want to stick to discussions about software as opposed to domains you have no knowledge of.

You’re right, maybe I should.

You’re just spreading misinformation and wasting other people’s time when you engage in subjects you have no understanding of.

Doesn’t mean it’s misinformation.

Some 68% declared that communism was a good idea, just one that had been poorly applied.

I don’t think Communism by itself is a bad idea (it’s not good, but not bad either), I just think it’s always been poorly applied. Think about it: as soon as the working class takes power, it turns into the new bourgeoisie, except it’s not money but power what they’re after.

It pretty clear that you don’t read much of anything.

I read a lot, but 99% of what I read is related to free software.

Ah yes, I guess people living in USSR were just ubermensch who are naturally healthier and didn’t need good healthcare to live longer.

There are tons of other factors at play, healthcare is not all there is to it.

I literally grew up in USSR, but sure tell me more about what my life there was really like.

Many of the people in the comments of that Quora post also grew up in the USSR.

The study I linked explains it in detail. You obviously didn’t bother reading it.

I didn’t bother, you’re right.

Life expectancy in USSR clearly demonstrates that the doctors were perfectly qualified.

Correlation != causation.

And you’re once again showing your utter ignorance about USSR by calling it a totalitarian regime.

Because it really was a totalitarian regime, everyone knows it, even those who lived in the USSR know it: https://www.quora.com/Was-it-an-exaggeration-to-say-that-the-Soviet-Union-was-a-totalitarian-state

Which would result in people starving in other parts of USSR. So, yes that is what you’re actually advocating for here without having the intellectual honesty to admit it.

Explain exactly how halting food exports to places that aren’t part of the USSR would starve people in the USSR.

There is literally no evidence to suggest that the famine was in any way intentional. However, nobody is disputing the fact that failure of policy contributed to the famine.

I will quote Stalin again (emphasis mine):

In order to oust the ‘kulaks’ as a class, the resistance of this class must be smashed in open battle and it must be deprived of the productive sources of its existence and development. … That is a turn towards the policy of eliminating the kulaks as a class.

The Soviet Union had the highest physician/patient ratio in the world. USSR had 42 doctors per 10,000 population compared to 24 in Denmark and Sweden, and 19 in US

That doesn’t say anything about the degree of qualification of such doctors. Yesterday I was reading that Cuba has the highest amount of doctors per capita, but I learned in the comments that turns out they’re no better qualified than nurses, and they’re paid a misery, but it’s their best chance to escape Cuba.

Also, you’re linking to a lot of studies. I need to know, how can reliable data be obtained from places under totalitarian regimes? Is it possible?

So, you’re saying they should’ve just let people in other parts of USSR die, instead of trying to alleviate the famine across the country the best they could by redistributing food where it was most needed?

No, that’s not what I said. I said exports to outside the USSR should have been halted.

It wasn’t the only factor, and I never made that claim. What’s being said is that there is no evidence for the famine being any sort of intentional genocide on the part of the Soviets.

Okay, there’s no consensus on whether the famine was an intentional genocide or not, but there’s some evidence that it was caused by failed policies of the USSR.

Note that USSR never had a famine after WW2 when it was finally able to develop in relative peace.

Maybe because a lot of advances were made on food production (outside of the USSR) and a lot of reforms were made within the USSR that introduced market-economy elements (perestroika) and increased government transparency (glasnost)?

You’re the one who lacks basic reading comprehension, because @southerntofu didn’t said anything about only happening in Ukraine.

The only stupid part here is equating Ukranians with kulaks.

Okay, I admit I didn’t even know what kulaks were. According to the Wikipedia article on kulaks, you’re right, they slaughtered millions of animals of their livestock rather than giving them to collectivized farms. But a lot of kulaks were also killed because Stalin said they should be liquidated as a class, and didn’t give specific instructions. Many more (majority in the Great Purge) were sent to the Gulag and died there.

In 1930, Stalin declared: “In order to oust the ‘kulaks’ as a class, the resistance of this class must be smashed in open battle and it must be deprived of the productive sources of its existence and development. … That is a turn towards the policy of eliminating the kulaks as a class.”

I mean, they literally imported net more food than they exported. Did you miss the part that the famine wasn’t restricted to Ukraine?

They should have stopped exporting food entirely, I mean, their own people were literally dying! And you’re right, my bad, I meant people across the whole Soviet Union.

You mean proof of a well documented fact? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_and_famines_in_Russia_and_the_Soviet_Union#List_of_post-1900_droughts_and_famines

What I meant was proof that weather was the only factor that caused that specific famine. Tauger says it played an important role in the famine, but the government was also responsible for it:

Although the low 1932 harvest may have been a mitigating circumstance, the regime was still responsible for the deprivation and suffering of the Soviet population in the early 1930s. The data presented here provide a more precise measure of the consequences of collectivization and forced industrialization than has previously been available; if anything, these data show that the effects of those policies were worse than has been assumed. They also, however, indicate that the famine was real, the result of a failure of economic policy, of the “revolution from above,” rather than of a “successful” nationality policy against Ukrainians or other ethnic groups.

This section of the Wikipedia article is good.

Also, note that most of the famines in that article took place during the USSR era.

First of all, famines were common prior to the revolution and were in fact one of the major driving factors behind it, and it’s also worth noting that kulaks slaughtered livestock in protest against collectivization which played a major role in the famine.

So, you’re blaming Ukrainians for causing their own famine? Sounds stupid.

Aid to Ukraine alone was 60 percent greater than the amount exported during the same period. Total aid to famine regions was more than double exports for the first half of 1933.

I mean, if millions of Ukrainians were starving to death, why didn’t Soviets reduce the amount exported food to zero percent and gave it to the starving Ukrainians instead?

It appears to have been another consequence of the low 1932 harvest that more aid was not provided: After the low 1931, 1934, and 1936 harvests procured grain was transferred back to peasants at the expense of exports.

Okay, that more or less answers my question.

Tauger is not a communist, and ultimately this specific article takes the view that the low harvest was caused by collectivization (he factors in the natural causes of the famine in later articles, based on how he completely neglects to mention weather in this article at all its clear that his position shifted over the years).

Lol, even the paper you’re using as evidence supports the notion that low harvests were caused by collectivization. It’s totally irrelevant whether Tauger was communist or not, because in order for the paper to be relevant, it must not be based on opinion. Where’s the proof that weather was the cause?

Kotkin very clearly states: “there was no ‘Ukrainian’ famine; the famine was Soviet.”

Which makes it even worse.

Lemmy tankies, please explain exactly how the Holodomor wasn’t caused by forced Communism or intentionally by Stalin. I need to know.

There is only going to be a bipolar hegemonic world for the next century, atleast, and the two poles will be USA and China, leading West and East respectively.

False dichotomy, a well-known fallacy. It’s not a matter of U.S. or China, no matter how much you want to make it look like it. Also, why are you saying U.S.A. is leading West when a lot of Europe is sided with U.S. and a lot of America is sided with China? Do you even know about global politics?

If you are not picking sides in this particular case, that only means you are satisfied with the current global hegemon and its doings. And therefore, you generally support USA over China.

False.

This is also apparent by your repeated baseless hinting at China being a dictatorial one man show. If dictatorships were so good and strong, dozens of them in the past would not have succumbed on their own.

Are you saying dictatorships don’t exist? If that’s what you think, then that proves once again you don’t know about global politics.

This diplomatic weaseling of “both sides bad” does not work because the third option does not exist, atleast for the next 100 years.

There are 195 countries in the world I can side with. It’s not all China and U.S., fyi.

Western imperialist propaganda media ecosystem.

Ah, yes, the Western imperialist propaganda media ecosystem™. I love being brainwashed by the Western imperialist propaganda media ecosystem™. Just imagine if China had its own propaganda media ecosystem! No, that’s impossible!

It is pointless to correct you because you are already using the “tankie” label, and the next labels you will use are “wumao”, “50 cent”, “CCP shill” and so on. It is a typical pattern for any brainwashed and morally bankrupt person (usually Westerners) at this point.

I’m proud of being a brainwashed and morally bankrupt person, at least I have actual freedoms. No one will ever put me in jail and torture me for saying this.

Further engagement seems like a waste of time, since you are not in for academic engagement, so I will stop here.

I’m very impressed by your academic engagement!

If you want to talk about human rights, imperialist capitalism is surely not giving Americans “socialist” subsidised healthcare (available across the border in Canada) or stopping the loot that happens with student loans, or even stopping the horror that is anti mask or anti vaccine propaganda.

Again, you’re not addressing the actions of the Chinese government, you’re just comparing again to the U.S. I want to make it extra clear that I’m not defending the U.S. For some reason, all tankies think there’s only two possibilities: either you support China or you support the U.S. Well, guess what? I don’t support either!

Chinese citizens actually have a lot of power in shaping public policies, have a government that listens quite a lot

Are you sure? Chinese people aren’t even allowed to complain about government policies, are they? There’s only one person who has a voice: Xi Jinping.

It also proves you are an Anglo-Saxon cheerleader.

Again, tankie groupthink: either China or the U.S. Plus ad hominem.

especially when it comes to the human rights of its own citizens

I think you’re missing the point and resorting to standard tankie defensive. I was explicitly talking about the rights of China’s citizens, not overseas’, and I said world domination/global intervention is a separate issue (to which I said U.S. a lot worse than China, but it seems like it flew over your head). You’re also using the smear word “Western”; I think what you meant was “the U.S.” (and probably Canada as well).

Your tankie arguments are also flawed in that you’re always comparing to the U.S., but you’re never actually addressing the actions of the Chinese government. I don’t care if the U.S. does X-sort of things, because that doesn’t mean China doesn’t do X-sort of things.

You’re late to the party, that thing was first released in 2019. I ordered one in mid-2020 and arrived the following month.

I’m going to get roasted again, but I will say that although China is not the world’s biggest threat, it is definitely way above the U.S. in threat level, especially when it comes to the human rights of its own citizens. (World domination is a separate issue, in that regard, the U.S. blows China.)

EDIT: Actually, there’s no reliable way to know how things in China really are, as there’s no freedom of speech at all, and the government fully controls all media, statistics and information.

People who downvote, please explain your reason.