“The whole Gaza Strip needs to be empty. Flattened. Just like in Auschwitz,” Metula Mayor David Azoulai said in a radio interview on Sunday, according toThe Times of Israel. “Let it be a museum for all the world to see what Israel can do. Let no one reside in the Gaza Strip for all the world to see, because October 7 was in a way a second Holocaust.”
How blinkered do you have to be to see the Hamas attacks on October 7 as akin to the Holocaust, but not see that your own determination to wipe out the entire people of Gaza resembles the genocidal intent behind the Holocaust?
I had family die in the work camps, die in the chambers, and die in the ghettos. If Gaza needs to become Auschwitz because you’re trying to shoehorn the Holocaust into the conversation, then October 7th was the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, you sick fuck. This mayor either needs a history lesson, a reminder to respect his family who died senselessly for their heritage, or would even do best to sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up. These blood-thirsty assholes need to figure out how to goddamn listen when others are crying before they repeat history’s worst atrocities.
Here’s a word I used to hear in Hebrew school and history lessons all the time: scapegoat. Look around you and try to identify who the scapegoat is. It ain’t us this time… Also, read the fucking room. If many of your most ardent supporters are Nazis, you’re probably doing a Nazi thing.
I’m just reading this on Wikipedia:
In 1939, German authorities began to concentrate Poland’s population of over three million Jews into a number of extremely crowded ghettos located in large Polish cities. The largest of these, the Warsaw Ghetto, collected approximately 300,000–400,000 people into a densely packed, 3.3 km2 area of Warsaw. Thousands of Jews were killed by rampant disease and starvation under SS-und-Polizeiführer Odilo Globocnik and SS-Standartenführer Ludwig Hahn, even before the mass deportations from the ghetto to the Treblinka extermination camp began.
They crowded those people in a small area with a high population density and they started to die of disease and starvation. Gosh gee, why does that sound so familiar? 🫠
Dude. I could be wrong, but I think the guy you’re replying to is on your side. Are you raging at him or the mayor? Because it seems like the first
To me, it clearly seemed to be directed at the mayor.
Okay. I’m clearly in the minority. I’m not sure why it was a reply and not a top level comment, but I’m willing to go with it
That really is my bad. I wanted to reply to this quote which really stabbed at the heart of the problem and, for a moment, considered that I might confuse people by “speaking” directly to mayor for literary effect, but then decided I was being overly-anal. Sorry that I confused you, but yes, I was passionately angry at the mayor’s mischaracterization of the situation in order to play the helpless victim. The only offense committed by !floofloof@lemmy.ca is perhaps one of underfloofiness.
Most of us here share your outrage. Peace, bro.
I may never recover from my outrage over the unfloofiness of this situation.
Maybe smoke less of the maryjayjay. Dude.
And if the death of, by the latest count, 764 Israeli civilians is a Holocaust, what does that make the death of 12,000 Palestinian civilians?
19000+ as of 4 days ago, and this is the minimum number since it only includes people Gazan hospitals physically counted.
19,000 is the total I’ve seen, but I don’t think there are good figures on civilian vs. combatant deaths. I was assuming a very conservative 2:1, which I saw reported somewhere, but I assume the civilian share is much higher, given that at least 7,000 or more of the dead from Israeli attacks were children.
In any case the point is that if killing Israeli civilians is wrong then killing dozens of times more Palestinian civilians should also be wrong. It’s a shame that most of the American political leadership doesn’t see it that way and instead wants to send Israel even more weapons with which to murder a vastly disproportionate number of civilians to the losses suffered in Israel.
19,000 is the total I’ve seen, but I don’t think there are good figures on civilian vs. combatant deaths. I was assuming a very conservative 2:1, which I saw reported somewhere,
I think you might be misremembering; that 2:1 is the number for October 7th.
Seems like the vast majority of those killed in Gaza are civilians.
The IDF claims 7k were “terrorists” but of course no proof for that. So far they have said anything from “we have captured/killed a dozen Hamas fighters” to “they are surrendering in hundreds”… but in the former example, a family of 35 members all die and among them is maybe, somewhere in the rubble a single Hamas government official or Hamas errand boy… and the latter, well, we’ve seen the pictures of “hundreds of Hamas fighters surrendering” and they all seemed to be civilians who got tortured.
I think the IDF could barely kill any militant fighters and that’s why they have no figures or bodies or photographic evidence or any way to verify whom they’ve killed. Add to that, the majority of those people killed in Gaza were in their homes or a refugee camp.
In the minds of those who see Palestinians as “untermenschen” - subhumans - their lives don’t count the same as human lives. (An Israeli government official quite literally and openly in a press conference deemed Palestinians to be “human animals”).
This shit we’re seeing is the violent expression of the most cold, cruel and extreme racism, all endorsed and even militarilly and diplomatically supported by the US (which is the ultimate hypocrisy from such loudly self-proclaimed defenders of “freedom”).
Freedom (Terms and conditions apply)
And to actually say you wanted to recreate the horrors of it. Like explicitly say that. That’s a special level of non-self-awareness.
Zionists are the new Nazis.
Treat Zionism like you would treat Nazism.
Treat Zionists like you would treat Nazis.
Israel has killed more civilians in 2 months than Russia has killed in 2 years, just to put things into perspective.
For some, “never again” means “never again let this happen to any People”, to others, it means “never again let this happen to us”. Unfortunately, it is much more common in the Israeli right to understand it the second way.
the Isreali right
The Israeli right: flatten the whole place, I want to salt the earth so they have nowhere to return to and they’re destroyed forever.
Israeli moderates: the IDF can have a little white phosphorous, as a treat
By all indications Germans (at least their political elites and a large part of the population) seem to have learned “never again” as being “never again do this to Jews” rather than “never again do this to other human beings”, hence they keep on giving unwavering support to Israel.
The racism never ended, all that happenned is that an etnicity who were “one of them” became “one of us”, hence the continued support of Israel and their actions: it’s “those like us” doing it to “them”, hence different moral limits if any apply than if it was “anybody vs those like us” (as it was in the Russian invasion of Ukraine were even a fraction done to Ukranians of what is being done to Palestinians led this very same German leadership to impose sanctions and break its long standing rules and start providing military help to the victims).
If there is one (somewhat surprising) thing this situation in Gaza brough to light, is how Germany doesn’t seem to have learned the absolute nature of the Evil of hyper-racist ultranationalist Fascism, instead it’s all seen as relative, the Evil being not in the nature of the actions but in the specific etnicity of the Fascists and their victims.
For such people the limits on to the harm done to “them” are entirelly different of the limits on the harm done to “us” - it’s the ultimate two-weights-two-measures and you can see that splattered all over Israeli propaganda (starting by the whole “it ain’t terrorism if done by us” that anchors most of the messaging).
That said, these types being the full-blown german-style cold murderous ultra-racist Fascists, in their mind it’s probably more “der ubermensch” vs “der untermensch” than “us” vs “them”.
I think it’s fucking dumb how the US supports Israel.
We only got attacked on 9/11 because of our support of Israel. Now we send them more support because they get attacked.
What exactly does Israel do for the US? Seems like being the main motivation behind the 9/11 attacks really outweighs any benefits they may have.
I don’t see any benefits from supporting Israel, personally, as a United States citizen.
The US doesn’t have a great track record of “not supporting distopian regimes”. They’ve either installed leaders with a dictatorial bent when the elected government wasn’t doing what they wanted, or just supported their puppet in the area even though they did horrific things. Generally they think “the end justifies the means”.
Apart from WW2, I can’t think of any major foreign operation that Americans were involved with that hasn’t blown up in their face sooner or later.
I’m pretty sure that the hundreds of millions of dollars that George W Bush personally owed/owes to the Bin Laden family, that they loaned to him to prospect oil in Texas, which he somehow failed at, was a bigger personal motivator than just our support of Israel up to that point.
You’d be wrong about that.
Just read Bin Laden’s actual words. He never mentions “your president personally owes me money.” Lol. But I’m all for seeing what evidence you have to back up your claims.
deleted by creator
Well how nice that this now makes it different 😊 /s
It does make a difference. It’s important context.
You can still denounce it. You can still make holocaust comparisons. But it’s important context that shouldn’t be left out. Because you’re perfectly aware of the implication otherwise.
Yeah, I agree, it’s good to be accurate. However, I doubt that that was the real intention of @ArtikBanana@lemmy.dbzer0.com. That’s the point, hope it’s clear now.
They weren’t saying this for “accuracy” unfortunately… otherwise no one would have had an issue with it. It’s the undertone that stinks.
And the “undertone that stinks” is anything that doesn’t agree with your position 100%.
Sure, whatever floats your boat 🙄
You wouldn’t respect a holocaust denier, would you? So why would I respect someone like ArtikBanana who is denying another genocide?
deleted by creator
The Nazis at first didn’t really care whether the Jews were expelled or murdered, they just wanted them eliminated from Germany. Some combination of expelling Jews and encouraging Jewish emigration was the initial plan.
For the life of me I wish I understood why it’s so hard for people to see that genociding one group of people is the same as any other group of people and that Never Again is pretty much right now.
Look mate, the Israeli government and a significant proportion of the population (enough that these types were elected) are extreme racists - which is painfully obvious in the historical track record of how the dehumanizing way they referred to Palestinians, especially more recently in things like an Israeli government official openly saying in a press conference that Palestinians are “human animals” - so in their mind Palestinians are not people like Israelis are.
In such a twisted view, it absolutelly is morally acceptable to treat “human animals” quite differently from how you treat “chosen people”.
It’s the very same “untermenschen” thinking as the Nazis, just with a different target group.
deleted by creator
What is your point in this?
What do YOU think their point is? 🤔
It’s all Nazi shit man, stop trying to pretend there’s a not-so-bad form that’s essential context.
.
Who cares about accuracy or the truth these days amiright?
The ones who care are those who think ethnic cleansing is somehow less bad than genocide, and they realllllly want to show it for some reason, but not for “accuracy”.
deleted by creator
I’m saying I don’t think that you discuss stuff in good faith.
Antisemite! /s
He said that Palestinians should be transferred to the Palestinian camps in Lebanon first. Before Gaza is flattened.
Corrections:
He said that Palestinians should be
transferredethnically cleansed/forcefully displaced to the Palestiniancampsghettos (or maybe I don’t even need to correct this one lol) in Lebanon first. BeforeGaza is flattenedtheir homes, memories, and livelihoods are forever destroyed.Then what will happen in Gaza when Palestinians will be gone ?
deleted by creator
Zionists and Nazis have disturbing amount of similarities. The whole world knows it.
The predecessors of Netanyahu’s modern coalition actively cooperated with Nazi Germany so… yeah.
Edit: Now that I looked it up the matter, while there’s a lot of legitimate criticism the Havaara agreement is a lot more nuanced than I assumed.
Interesting. Have a link to more info on that?
Not OP but likely refers to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
I didn’t read the whole thing, but that…seems pretty reasonable to me.
Stfu disinformation. Read the wiki. These comments are so fucking dangerous in a world where people are denying the Holocaust ever happened and nobody knows the fucking difference between, Jews, Zionism, genocide, antisemitism, Hamas, Palestine, Israel.
“The agreement enabled Jews fleeing persecution under the new Nazi regime to transfer some portion of their assets to British Mandatory Palestine.”
After they lost, they let them have some of their shit back and access to lower cost goods. This is not Zionist-Nazi collusion you irresponsible fucking cunt.
Seeking Lebensraum by evicting another party?
What one mayor said is only the tip of the iceberg.
You know you failed as a Jewish nation when the very museum dedicated as a reminder of your people’s suffering and the holocaust which lead to the creation of your country is telling you you’re a sick people.
I know there are many Israelis who are against what’s happening and we shouldn’t put everyone in the same basket, but man…
I really want the hostages to be returned safely and Hamas to take a hike, but it’s hard to have any sympathy for Israel with how they acted towards Palestinians.
I know there are many Israelis who are against what’s happening and we shouldn’t put everyone in the same basket, but man…
I mean I see what you mean but Netanyahu is called the king of Israeli politics for a reason. They’ve consistently elected right wing genocidal maniacs.
deleted by creator
We should remember that it’s the hard right government of Israel that perpetuates this, not the average Israeli. They are heavily indoctrinated and propagandized. They are victims too.
Yeah but. I mean. So were the Germans during WW2 under the Nazi regime. Is that really a good excuse?
Not an excuse. An explanation. Many are puppets repeating what they are told, and can be educated.
Is that what we should do for the Nazis? Have sympathy for them and the Nazi propaganda at the time? Mass killing is not ok period. Sympathy be damned.
deleted by creator
If we let hate consume us, we become like them.
Lack of sympathy equals hate? No. Just because I do not empathize with somebody does mean I want them to experience harm. I’m just not gonna lose any sleep if they do. Sue me.
True, but they are the same people that keep voting in the far right. It’s the same in many countries at the moment.nthe far right is not supported by all, but by enough to gain power.
Do all Americans deserve to suffer because low information voters keep electing Republicans?
No, but that’s how democracy works.
You could widen it. Does all the world deserve to suffer as many voters in America choose to be low information voters?
They’re competent adults, if they’re voting. Nothing but contempt for any of them.
Netanyahu barely won the last election and is being prosecuted for corruption. Leading up to the attack he had months of protests against his government. Lots of Israelis agree he’s horrible and shouldn’t be running the country.
Get back to me when someone wins with a platform of treating Palestinians like human beings.
Until then, I wouldn’t cross the street to piss on them if they were on fire.
Yeah, this is exactly why we should just glass Florida. No innocents there.
Dude, stop being a fucking child.
Nah, I have no sympathy simply due to the fact they chose to be a part of that so called society. It’s not like somebody put a gun to their head and forced to move there.
Nobody forced them to live in the country they were born in?
Dumb fuck comments like these are why criticisms get automatically called antisemitism. What a stupid take.
Lol. Bullshit. Conflating Zionism with the interests of the entire Jewish population is choosing to deny any Jewish person their own agency. I do not advocate violence, period. However, some jerk that actually chooses to participate in a bigoted authoritarian society finding that’s it’s not all sunshine and roses and instead exposes them to potential danger and violence instead? Boo fucking hoo.
But, sure, pointing out the blatant similarities between Zionism and fascism is the problem. Yeah, whatever. Go on with your bad self…or something. I still have no sympathy for zionists.
The comment you were replying to is literally in reference to “the average israeli citizen”. What the fuck are you talking about
Nobody (here) is denying that Zionism is modern day Fascism, certainly not me. But in the comment that I replied to, you are sure to say that nobody forced them to move there, but something like 80% of Israelis were born there. I imagine a lifetime of indoctrination is something difficult to overcome.
It’s perfectly possible to be sympathetic to Jews as nationality and Israelis as citizens all while agreeing Israeli government and military are doing war crimes, despite the latter desperately trying to make you believe it’s one and the same.
SMH, what is the world coming to when the Auschwitz museum is run by an antisemite.
/s
Maybe Congress should pass a bill condemning the Auschwitz museum for antisemitism?
Huh? Where in this story does Piotr Cywiński (director of the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum) say anything bad about jews or Israel?
He was even part of a counsel that supported the war.Some random-ass mayor of a town of 1,693 people is calling for full-blown genocide. The Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum is simply stating that they do not agree in the slightest with those statements.
The joke is that any criticism of Israel is labelled anti-semitic by the propagandists.
It’s a play on the recent revelations that many countries and organizations have adopted a definition of Anti-Semitism that includes criticism of the Israeli government.
Bruh.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
A human being that misses the point of the comment might think this…
woosh
deleted by creator
I would except it seems that you deleted your comment.
Ah, so that means the Auschwitz Museum is… checks notes anti-Semitic!
Makes sense.
Correct ✅
I know the asshat who made the comments was just a nobody hick but I’m ecstatic the museum decided to reply to it.
If someone uses your name to justify cruelty, no matter how insignificant the person may be, it’s always worth speaking up.
People could also take the Museum’s silence on the matter as affirmation.
If someone uses your name to justify cruelty, no matter how insignificant the person may be, it’s always worth speaking up.
It’s going to take an eternity for God and his son to get caught up on this.
Dude did not understand the assignment. Auschwitz wasn’t made as a memorial. It was made by the Nazis and turned into a memorial later.
To create a new Auschwitz in Gaza as a demonstration of Israeli power is not to create a museum. Well it might be, but it won’t be a museum to Israeli power anymore than Auschwitz is one to German power.
“terrorism can never be a response to terrorism.”
Great words, but israel is proving them false.
Oh it can for sure, it just shouldn’t
Wow is Israel the new Nazi state?
Has been for decades.
Israel did Lebensraum in 1949, so they’ve been a Nazi state since about that long ago.
Just an extension.
Yes this isn’t old news to be either. What’s the point of redirecting?
To explain how Israel is not a new Nazi state.
Metula is a town of 1700 people. Probably not safe to assume that every random Israeli dildo that says something idiotic is speaking for the country.
The key will be if anything happens to that person as a result. Will there be any repercussions for him? If not, it is likely a systematic issue in their culture.
It reminds me of the whole “If you let a Nazi stay in your bar, it will eventually become a Nazi bar” allegory.
Israel seems to already have become a Nazi bar, for quite a while even.
Speaking of systemic cultural issues.
Seventy-two percent of respondents said they believed the Hamas decision to launch the cross-border rampage in southern Israel was “correct” given its outcome so far, while 22% said it was “incorrect”. The remainder were undecided or gave no answer.
Yeah, definitely, the Palestinians are suffering immensely and have never had a means of finding justice for the harms they have suffered. I wrote this in another comment, but if the Israelis ever decide to pursue a path of healing instead of genocide, it is going to take a long time for the Palestinians to heal and recover from those harms.
What would happen? Israelis have freedom of expression and it’s unlikely his disgusting comments rise to the level of a crime. Would you call that an actionable threat? He’s about as close to decision-makers as we are. Like, when Lindsey Graham called this conflict a holy war against Islam, it was revolting but I doubt most were surprised that he wasn’t legally punished. The most likely punishment is public ridicule and revulsion because there are few cases where people face legal consequences for speech.
The most likely punishment is public ridicule and revulsion because there are few cases where people face legal consequences for speech.
Yeah, and something tells me he isn’t gonna get these things.
What tells you? Do you think the Auschwitz Museum isn’t well-respected in Israel? Most English-language coverage in Israel seems to at least be prominently featuring the criticism over his statement.
It’s because at least 50% of Israelis agree with him. That’s the number of right wing voters.
What does “representative democracy” even mean amirite fellas
Which party ran on a platform of murdering or displacing everyone in Gaza? Most Israeli voters vehemently disagree with parties that ran on considerably less extreme platforms than that. Half the reason for the emergency unity government was removing those less extreme extremists from decision-making positions.
A repercussion could also include him being removed from office if his constituents feel strongly about it. You use the example of Lindsay Graham. If America didn’t have such deep systemic racist issues, a violent military-centric culture, or a strong Christo-fascist element in society, he would probably be recalled. As it is, genocide Joe, our government and much of the population seem perfectly fine with eliminating the Palestinians. Recently there has been stronger push-back. That is nice to see, but we still have a long way to do before we can develop a good cultural response against genocide.
I don’t have any problem with there being consequences for his statement. I don’t even know what options his constituents have to remove him, to be honest. I just don’t think there’s only one conclusion to be drawn from him not being punished. Notably in the case of Graham, you talk about his constituents. For Azoulai it’s his culture. His constituents are 1700 people.
Do you think that all Americans support a holy war against Islam because Graham wasn’t punished? Presumably not. Why do you ascribe the belief to all Israelis here?
I’m not saying all Americans support this unholy war, but not enough are outraged that I think it is a sign of deep cultural problems in our society. Trump is the chief symptom of our insanity. Israel is also a sick society, and that person saying those abhorrent things without any negative impact on his life is a symptom.
Its par for the course though
Got a legitimate source?
Which of the sources do you have a problem with?
JFC the article is practically just a list of referenced sources - congrats on your block.
I’d wager the vast majority of people in the IDF have similar sentiments.
Most of them are racist, sexist, right-wing scumbags.
Im done with this. I say we solomon this shit. If they can decide on who gets the baby or learn to share it, then we glass the whole area with nukes and nobody gets to live there.
A man of action. Let’s do it.
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
It’s not so much a dislike of Israel as it is a dislike of a government hiding behind false accusations of racism in order to further their own shitty agenda.
I am friends with Israeli jews, I am friends with Muslims, I would love to visit Russia someday as a tourist, and I am proud to live in the part of America where I currently reside. Thay said, I don’t like the actions of the IDF, I don’t like what Hamas stands for, I don’t like the actions of the Russian government, I don’t like the actions of the US Government.
But if that’s the route you want to take, you really don’t like Palestine, huh?
Pretty much any entity/person standing behind israel’s actions right now is on the wrong side of humanity.
deleted by creator
I don’t see how the fact that the town is not in Gaza makes the point invalid
deleted by creator
Yes dude.
The point isn’t that the museum is responding to some fuckwit mayor, that’s just a minor detail.
The point is that they’re saying anything at all and making their position loud and clear, when up until now they’ve stayed silent.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Mate, even if it was the mayor of Upton Snodsbury in Worcestershire who had made this comment, I would be glad to see the Auschwitz Museum had responded to them. The fact it was a mayor in the country in question makes it even more relevant.
Never again means never again. It means challenging genocide and ethnic cleansing every time, at every step along the road that leads to these outcomes - not just waiting until the trains are already on their way to the death camps before your raise your voice.
yeah yeah idf bad…we all know. but why support gaza…a place with no gay marriage, hardly any women rights, patriachy…overall shit position. the main misunderstanding seems that just because idf is shit, there is absolutely no reason to support gaza. egypt and other muslim “friends” dont do it but the west off all is supposed to root for gaza?!? cant wrap my head around that type of thinking. and wasnt it the arab league that ON DAY ONE of existance of israel held a meeting and made the decision to kill them all? “fRoM zEh rIva2 zeH sEa” is removed.
This is your brain on identity politics.
You can disagree with people’s views on issues but defend their right to self determination and…idk, being against them being wiped out? Especially because Gaza is almost half children.
so all palestinians are hamas?
lets ask shani louk. …oh, a woman that hamas and palestinians spat on before killing here. yeah…you go root for evil and i go burn a palestinian flag as you say they are all in on this.
so all palestinians are hamas?
lets ask shani louk. …oh, a woman that hamas and palestinians spat on before killing here. yeah…you go root for evil and i go burn a palestinian flag as you say they are all in on this.
It’s not a team sport. And the day one war was because Israel declared both Independence and that Palestinians would leave or die. Which is what happens when extremists who have been committing acts of terror create a government.
leave what exactly? a place governd by the UK, right? hamas is nothing but scum. rapists. they abuse the children as shields. i dont see your argument really.
Their homes. It was a colony, not Liverpool. And again, it’s not a team sport. The 20,000 dead civilians are not Hamas.
a place with no gay marriage, hardly any women rights, patriachy…overall shit position. the main misunderstanding seems that just because idf is shit, there is absolutely no reason to support gaza.
Women are being oppressed, so let’s wipe them all out, including the women?
What the fuxk is wrong with you? No one is supporting Gaza or hamas, when they say there is disproportionate amount of civilian deaths happening in this war with International support.
no. lets not get caught up by their propaganda. hamas are not the nice guys at all.
