City’s like Amsterdam are not build for cars. They are allowed but it is mostly people on foot and bicycles. Going over 30 is not possible and dangerous.
On the contrary: Amsterdam was rebuilt for cars in the 1950s-1970s, then re-rebuilt for bikes because they realized that they had made a terrible mistake.
So… it’s not currently built for cars.
The point is, it’s not an “oh, it’s just 'cause it’s old and historic and couldn’t possibly be replicated anywhere else” thing. It absolutely can be done everywhere; the only difference is that Amsterdam is one of the few places that’s had the, frankly, good sense to do it. (I almost wrote “political will” there, but when you consider the fact that car-centric design doesn’t even fucking work for car drivers themselves, it really is more a matter of competence than ideology.)
it’s just 'cause it’s old and historic and couldn’t possibly be replicated anywhere else
Not sure why you’re so insistent on replying to your own strawman argument. The statement is “Amsterdam is not built for cars”. That’s it. That’s what you replied to…
The old center that was built before cars is only a part of the city. The rest of the city has been built with car traffic in mind. The problem is more that it is too crowded.
The problem is really that cars are too space inefficient for what they do. Cars travelling at 50km/h should have at the very least 1s of travel distance safety distance between vehicles which is about three car lengths. In other words for the often single person travelling in a car you need about one lane width times 4 car lengths of space which is probably more than your average apartment size in most cities and unlike apartments roads tend to not be stacked 5 or 6 high on top of each other. And that does not even take parking and space to enter and exit each parking space into account. Not to mention that a lot of that space is unused outside the peak usage hours at any given location.
We’re were getting a 20 mph limit for most roads in our UK town (until it was scrapped yesterday) and the local Facebook groups are acting like they’re turning us into an open air prison.
Apparently having shops in walking distance is a Chinese conspiracy, and we must reject the climate emergency, and other such frothing at the mouth…
And next step is to enforce a 25km/h speed limit for e-bikes. Those kids on those fatbikes are a menace.
We have that in Germany, 25 for regular e-bikes. Anything above requires you to register and insure your bike, you get an actual license plate and you are considered a vehicle not meant to use regular bike lanes.
Not quite. Only the motor assist has to shut off at 25 km/h. You can go as fast as you want (and your legs allow) with most e-Bikes. The ones which require a license plate are extremely rare.
Fun fact: the default speed limits of 50 in built-up areas and 100 on country roads do not apply to bicycles without license plates. Those, by law, are only for “Kraftfahrzeuge”. Signposted limits on the other hand are for “Fahrzeuge aller Art”, which includes bicycles and horse carriages.
What’s so strange is that still you will find big Toyota, Audi and Mercedes vehicles parked in the center, even though it’s not handy to move that way in the city
That sounds like a big mistake. I can understand like, 48 km/h per hour in highly populated areas, but going below US school speed limits is going to create lots of offenders (maybe that’s the end game). I can ride faster that 30 km/h on my bike. I can continually do that with as little as a 5% decline from the horizontal axis.
Loudly and visibly changing the rules doesn’t “create offenders”. Offenders aren’t victims of changed rules.
It has been shown time and again that lowering speed limits in cities reduces traffic accidents and emissions at close to no costs to the flow of traffic.
My own city (in Germany, so it really was a heavily-criticized decision) lowered the speed limit on one of the major arterial roads to 30 kph. It is one I have to use regularly, and oh boy, let me tell you: I was soooo opposed to the change. Yet, it really only changed how fast you arrive at the next red light. There is literally no discernable change in how long it takes to pass that street, especially during rush hour. Traffic just got a little more fluid.
It is, however, the street with the most speeding tickets in town. I regularly see one or two mobile speed cameras along the way. And I’ve never been fined. You got to wonder…
Offenders aren’t victims of changed rules.
I’d say they are, if the rules are shit. In this case though the rules are fine imo.
I mean even if this speed limit was shit, it’s not like speed limits in general are invisible and people don’t know what happens if you break them. Every offense in this case is self-inflicted and not caused by the limit itself.
Typical walking speed is about 2.5 to 3 MPH suppose your government legislated a universal walking speed limit of 1.5 MPH. I think you can easily see that ridiculous laws create offenders, and the offenders are the victim of bad laws.
Bad faith argument much?
And now back to the real world…
Wait school zone speed limits in the US is higher than 30km/h ?
In my country school zone speed limit is usually 20km/h and there are tons of residential areas as well as more and more cities that restricts big portion of their roads to 30km/h.
This is mostly done to reduce noise pollution as well as mortal accidents.
Remember the american mentality:
As soon as children are born, they don’t matter any more.
School zones are 40km/h in my country.
It’s 20mph which is 32kmh
Most school zones in the US are 20mph (32km/h). Some states will have 25mph and, for example, a highway going through a school zone that usually 65mph may go to 35-50mph when the school zone is active but this is an exception, not the rule and is done on a case by case basis.
Remember though, American roads are much larger tha European roads. Most of these school zones that go that slow there’s really no need for it.
a highway going through a school zone
What. Aren’t those supposed to be grade-separated and have no pedestrians.
Also you are only allowed to drive as fast as to not endanger others. Children are not reliable and predictable. In front of a school during school hours driving at the speed limit is still reckless.
Cars shouldn’t be allowed around schools at all.
Parents need a way to drop off and pick up their kids, especially if it is a time other than school hours- the kid is sick, has a doctor’s appointment, etc.
Not in most of europe, where kids can usually go to school by themselves, either by walking, biking or public transport. It’s all about city planning.
Helicopter parents driving their children to and from school are a big nuisance and safety concern here.
If your child is very sick, walking, biking or public transport would not be the best way to get them out of a school.
There have to be excemptions for those very rare cases of course. Just like there are for fire trucks in case the school building is on fire.
But if children are too sick to walk, an ambulace might be a better solution perhaps?
Also 30km/h with a 9kg bike isn’t 30km/h with a 1600kg toyota when you hit someone
If you want to go fast go around the city
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Amsterdam isn’t the kind of place where you’d be doing 30km/h. In car or on bike.
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Amsterdam is one big highly populated area. See point 1.
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If you do try going over 30km/h in Amsterdam, you’re frankly a danger to yourself in most places on bike and a danger to pretty much everyone else when you’re in a car.
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Thankfully Amsterdam isn’t the first city to do this and most of it is also limited to 30 kph anyway, so we actually this will work out fine.
I can ride faster that 30 km/h on my bike. I can continually do that with as little as a 5% decline from the horizontal axis.
5% is pretty steep, I wouldn’t be surprised if one could reach 30 kph without pedaling at all.
5% is pretty steep
found the dutch person
5% is pretty steep, I wouldn’t be surprised if one could reach 30 kph without pedaling at all.
Technically you can reach that with any amount of drop per distance where the speed gain exceeds drag as long as you don’t specify how long the incline is.
where the speed gain exceeds drag
That’s the question.
I shaved my body and only cycle naked to achieve minimum drag
Just so I can crash into kids faster on an incline
Many major European cities already implemented this, and I’ve yet to hear of a single one where it turned out to be “a big mistake”. Can anybody from these cities report (e. g. Helsinki or others)?
Madrid did this. Massive fail, basically no one was going 30km/h, if you did (which I used to, just to fuck around) you could expect lots of honking and comments about your mother. It was reverted shortly after
That’s not a failure of the law, it’s a failure of law enforcement
but going below US school speed limits is going to create lots of offenders
That’s not really relevant in Europe.
30 km/h is somewhere around the point where pedestrians can walk away from a collision with a car. Not unharmed but likely without broken bones.
Yes you can bike faster, but a bike has much less mass so they’re less dangerous for pedestrians in collisions.
The limit before was 50km/h. The city is just too crowded. By lowering the speed limit even more you force people to take the highways if they want to reach the other side of the city.
Actually there’s so much road crossing from people and bikes in Amsterdam that cars kind of already go to 30km/h in most streets
