"After two successful test phases, the city’s decision has been made: bus and tram travel will become free for Montpellier’s residents. From December 2023, none will have to pay for public transport.
"In this way, the city aims to reduce air pollution, cut emissions and support disadvantaged groups.
"The measure is part of a 150 million euro package that also includes the construction of new bicycle lanes.
Anyone have thoughts on free public transport? Would it work in your city?
@ajsadauskas@TheOne - in #Queensland, the fare box revenue is so small, that eliminating the whole fare collection and enforcement would have a very minor effect on the budget, and could even be net positive if it lead to less driving (health, pollution, crashes, congestion) and more mobility.
The government keeps the full ongoing costs of the fare system secret, but we know for example that they spent A$371 million to add a payment by credit card option. Fare revenue in 2022: A$203m.
@tom_andraszek@TheOne Playing devil’s advocate for a moment, in theory, the logic of requiring a fare is that, as patronage increases, there’s more money to improve services.
So more passengers -> more fares -> more services -> more passengers -> more fares.
It’s a virtuous cycle.
As opposed to cars, where more passengers -> more traffic -> worse travel times.
That being said, there are good alternatives.
Properties close to public transport services tend to have higher property prices.
A small council rates levy or property tax can capture that value, and be used to pay for the service.
Another option is the Hong Kong Metro model, where the service generates a profit as a result of property development above and around the stations.
In theory, that revenue could be used to fund a public transport service.
@ajsadauskas@TheOne - yes, but the situation needs to be evaluated as a whole from the point of view of the user and trip: car vs PT vs active transport: marginal cost, door to door speed, quality, safety, comfort, availability. By making PT free, we would be making it a bit more competitive against car here. As it is, it loses to car in most categories for most trips, in #GoldCoast: 5% to 85%.
@tom_andraszek@ajsadauskas@TheOne I don’t think people are entirely rational economic access-seeking actors on a per-trip basis. I’m more interested in the psychological difference between pay-per-trip (transit) and pay-once-a-year (car insurance, rates - plus monthly payments if you have a lease, but you can’t just not pay them if you don’t drive, it’s a long term commitment too).
@tom_andraszek@ajsadauskas@TheOne Free PT is one way to align payment frequency (well, remove the pay-per-trip and replace it with nothing), but another is discounted long term public transport passes, creating pre-commitment to taking public transport. And another, perhaps more politically difficult, is road fares per car trip…
@jroper@ajsadauskas@TheOne - oh, people are definitely #PredictablyIrrational when making decisions - check out the 2008 book by Dan Ariely, especially the chapter about the disproportional power of free.
Yep, if you want people to use something less, make them pay for it every time they use it (there are no PT passes in Queensland).
Also, people rarely compare total car ownership costs, which some PT advocates are fixated on, vs fares. It’s per trip decision if you have a car already.
@tom_andraszek@ajsadauskas@TheOne Well not perhaps, obviously more difficult. Discounted monthly passes already used to exist, and I don’t see that they’re technically incompatible with smart-card systems.
Monthly or yearly passes could be salary sacrified and/or a welfare benefit, resulting in many people getting effectively free PT - but seeing it differently from general free PT, as a thing of value that they paid for/were given and should take advantage of… maybe.
One of the most lowkey-socialist things Gladys Berejiklian ever caused to happen (I can only guess her direct influence) was to remove the classist and cognitive burden of Sydney’s fare incentives and rewards
Labor’s T-Card and London’s Oyster had/have none of these policy goals
Meanwhile Melbourne is cruel and lazy, charging $3.10 to go a few bus stops (2-hour minimum)
@jroper@tom_andraszek@ajsadauskas@TheOne While I’m here allow me to vent indignation at being charged by time instead of distance — thus rewarding for delay — and impacting those who can least afford it, with commutes approaching the 2-hour mark
I also wish to applaud the Gladys era of Sydney Buses for switching to a line-of-sight distance charging scheme
I am NOT defending bus-tram-train price differentials, but “as-the-crow-flies” fares won’t punish you twice for using indirect bus routes
@TheOne From the article:
"After two successful test phases, the city’s decision has been made: bus and tram travel will become free for Montpellier’s residents. From December 2023, none will have to pay for public transport.
"In this way, the city aims to reduce air pollution, cut emissions and support disadvantaged groups.
"The measure is part of a 150 million euro package that also includes the construction of new bicycle lanes.
Anyone have thoughts on free public transport? Would it work in your city?
https://scoop.me/montpellier-free-public-transport/
#planning #UrbanPlanning #transport #tram #trams #train #trains #ClimateCrisis #ClimatePolicy #railway #metro #cities
@ajsadauskas @TheOne I would love it in Prague. It works in Tallinn for residents and I don’t see why it wouldn’t work in more cities.
@ajsadauskas
I live near Atlanta, Georgia, USA, and unfortunately we’d have to have a massively huge expansion of our public transit before this could work here.
@ajsadauskas @TheOne - in #Queensland, the fare box revenue is so small, that eliminating the whole fare collection and enforcement would have a very minor effect on the budget, and could even be net positive if it lead to less driving (health, pollution, crashes, congestion) and more mobility.
The government keeps the full ongoing costs of the fare system secret, but we know for example that they spent A$371 million to add a payment by credit card option. Fare revenue in 2022: A$203m.
@tom_andraszek @TheOne Playing devil’s advocate for a moment, in theory, the logic of requiring a fare is that, as patronage increases, there’s more money to improve services.
So more passengers -> more fares -> more services -> more passengers -> more fares.
It’s a virtuous cycle.
As opposed to cars, where more passengers -> more traffic -> worse travel times.
That being said, there are good alternatives.
Properties close to public transport services tend to have higher property prices.
A small council rates levy or property tax can capture that value, and be used to pay for the service.
Another option is the Hong Kong Metro model, where the service generates a profit as a result of property development above and around the stations.
In theory, that revenue could be used to fund a public transport service.
@ajsadauskas @TheOne - yes, but the situation needs to be evaluated as a whole from the point of view of the user and trip: car vs PT vs active transport: marginal cost, door to door speed, quality, safety, comfort, availability. By making PT free, we would be making it a bit more competitive against car here. As it is, it loses to car in most categories for most trips, in #GoldCoast: 5% to 85%.
@tom_andraszek @ajsadauskas @TheOne I don’t think people are entirely rational economic access-seeking actors on a per-trip basis. I’m more interested in the psychological difference between pay-per-trip (transit) and pay-once-a-year (car insurance, rates - plus monthly payments if you have a lease, but you can’t just not pay them if you don’t drive, it’s a long term commitment too).
@tom_andraszek @ajsadauskas @TheOne Free PT is one way to align payment frequency (well, remove the pay-per-trip and replace it with nothing), but another is discounted long term public transport passes, creating pre-commitment to taking public transport. And another, perhaps more politically difficult, is road fares per car trip…
@jroper @ajsadauskas @TheOne - oh, people are definitely #PredictablyIrrational when making decisions - check out the 2008 book by Dan Ariely, especially the chapter about the disproportional power of free.
Yep, if you want people to use something less, make them pay for it every time they use it (there are no PT passes in Queensland).
Also, people rarely compare total car ownership costs, which some PT advocates are fixated on, vs fares. It’s per trip decision if you have a car already.
@tom_andraszek @ajsadauskas @TheOne Well not perhaps, obviously more difficult. Discounted monthly passes already used to exist, and I don’t see that they’re technically incompatible with smart-card systems.
Monthly or yearly passes could be salary sacrified and/or a welfare benefit, resulting in many people getting effectively free PT - but seeing it differently from general free PT, as a thing of value that they paid for/were given and should take advantage of… maybe.
@tom_andraszek @ajsadauskas @TheOne but this is all just tinkering compared to competitive speed, frequency, and reach/door-to-door time.
@jroper @tom_andraszek @ajsadauskas @TheOne Please let’s not return to the crazy days of monthly / quarterly / yearly passes
One of the most lowkey-socialist things Gladys Berejiklian ever caused to happen (I can only guess her direct influence) was to remove the classist and cognitive burden of Sydney’s fare incentives and rewards
Labor’s T-Card and London’s Oyster had/have none of these policy goals
Meanwhile Melbourne is cruel and lazy, charging $3.10 to go a few bus stops (2-hour minimum)
@jroper @tom_andraszek @ajsadauskas @TheOne While I’m here allow me to vent indignation at being charged by time instead of distance — thus rewarding for delay — and impacting those who can least afford it, with commutes approaching the 2-hour mark
I also wish to applaud the Gladys era of Sydney Buses for switching to a line-of-sight distance charging scheme
I am NOT defending bus-tram-train price differentials, but “as-the-crow-flies” fares won’t punish you twice for using indirect bus routes
@tom_andraszek @ajsadauskas @TheOne I’d rather increase the frequency of PT before we remove fairs.