Israel’s military has claimed it has encircled Gaza City and divided the besieged coastal strip into two, as Gaza came under its third total communications outage since the start of the war.
“Today, there is north Gaza and south Gaza,” Israeli army spokesman Daniel Hagari told reporters on Sunday, calling it a “significant stage” in Israel’s war against Hamas.
Israeli media reported that troops are expected to enter Gaza City within 48 hours. Strong explosions were seen in northern Gaza after nightfall.
But the “collapse in connectivity” across Gaza reported by internet access advocacy group NetBlocks.org and confirmed by the Palestinian telecom company Paltel made it even more complicated to convey details of the new stage of the military offensive.
It seems to me that they’re planning on squeezing the people from the north into the south, then closing off the north from any return. This is consistent with a plan of annexing and depopulating Gaza.
If so, this would be ethnic cleansing. This strategy appears to be genocide.
One issue the IDF has been working with for a while is the sheer amount of tunneling by Hamas. There is dense housing right on top of the tunnels. Destroying the tunnels can lead to the above buildings collapsing, as well as the damage caused by any explosives.
Will they annex and depopulate Gaza? I hope not. That’s just going to create another generation of fighters itching for revenge. Grievances outlast Hamas, and they will likely find a form. That said, maybe a single state solution will be the best form of government, as long as Palestinians, Jewish Israelis, and other groups are guaranteed equal rights. The half-ass “two state” attempt right now isn’t working.
That said, maybe a single state solution will be the best form of government, as long as Palestinians, Jewish Israelis, and other groups are guaranteed equal rights. The half-ass “two state” attempt right now isn’t working.
I guarantee, if they actually offered that nobody would complain. But they won’t, to “preserve Israel’s Jewish character”. See: Their rejection of Palestinian right of return.
Hell, if they were willing to do that Israel wouldn’t exist and we’d just have had a unified Palestine in 1948.
They want to keep Gaza and the West Bank under military rule until they can fully depopulate them and create Lebensraum.
you’re ignoring the fact that the Palestinian Arabs do not want a two state solution, and the majority of them want to genocide the Jews.
Uh… The PLO had a lot of national support for a hot minute there, until Netenyahu just up and shut down the Oslo accords. That’s what made terror as popular in Palestine as it is now; there’s simply no other means of resistance left to them.
You mean the PLO who’s second charter was:
“Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit”
They weren’t exactly fans of a two state solution either.
Uh… They then recognized Israel as part of the Oslo accords so… Yeah. There goes your excuse.
Well yeah they were talking about one-state secular democracy, not a two state solution
For most of the time Israel has existed the Palestinian stance has been a one state under Palestine without Jews. They didn’t want a secular democracy, they wanted to get rid of the Jews.
The fact you think Palestine didn’t have Jews is funny and really sad. Go read a book.
Of course it had Jews, long before it had Muslims. Doesn’t change that the majority of Palestinian Arabs want to get rid of the Jews.
And we’re talking about the area since the formation of Israel.
exactly. Israel is currently creating hamas 2.0 - you think all of those dead children won’t be avenged by their parents? or the dead parents won’t be avenged by their children?? their approach is and has always been to completely destroy palestinians, this was their opportunity.
The half-ass “two state” attempt right now isn’t working.
It’s because it’s half-assed, by Netanyahu. He won’t allow Palestine state to be formed, as well as will not return the West Bank and evict the illegal settlement, but instead either allow the settler to stay or carve that land for himself. He also want Palestine to demilitarised. A country without military is a sitting duck, so it’s understandable no one wanted that.
No, he doesn’t want Palestine. More moderate/leftist Israelis want a demilitarized Palestine. The Israeli far right just wants them off the map for their lebensraum.
He doesn’t want the state Palestine to exists and the people who identified as Palestinian. If he doesn’t want Palestine(the land) he will retreat from West Bank. Instead, he continue to occupy it and illegally build more settler there.
He doesn’t want a Palestine, he wants it to be greater Israel or whatever.
I agree with this 100%. I think it needs to get said more, and more: Palestinians deserve full civil rights including the freedom of movement throughout a single state covering all of historic Palestine.
considering that Israel hasn’t been interested in the two-state solution and has been working hard to undermine it, of course it didn’t work
Israel doesn’t give a shit about Gaza. Gaza is a distraction. The real deal is the West Bank were the settlers/militia are being armed by Israel. There are already videos of Ben Gvir giving assault weapons to the settlers and riling them up. They are the ones who will commit the genocide in Israel’s behalf. Shit is already going down. The militia is depopulating villages, commuting murder and arson, all while the IDF just stands and watches. But the media only shows Gaza. Even Biden already realized what happened and is shitting his britches realizing he supported what is about to happen. This are the first stages of a genocide.
they want both Gaza AND Palestine, that’s why Netanyahu was supporting Hamas, to use them against the PA in the west bank
I agree with you. I’m not sure where we’re in disagreement.
I don’t know the precise planning. I’m guessing Israel would prefer to focus on depopulating Gaza first, and let the Settlers terrorize the West Bank until they’re ready to reallocate troops. Then I think that once they’ve got secure control of Gaza, they’ll wait for an opportunistic terror attack in the West Bank as pretense to redirect the troops. But I think they want to fully conquer Gaza first to avoid dividing their forces.
Like I said, though, I think we all agree on the overall plan, we just don’t know the exact battle plan. But Genocide is the intent.
I don’t think we’ll see the army blooding their hands in the West Bank. We’re going to see major atrocities there (executions, mass graves, etc) but it will be by the armed militia (aka settlers). The army will just observe to keep plausible deniability.
Ben-Gvir, a settler in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, has faced charges of hate speech against Arabs and was known to have a portrait in his living room of Israeli-American terrorist Baruch Goldstein, who massacred 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers and wounded 125 others in Hebron, in the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre. He removed the portrait after he entered politics.[5] He was also previously convicted of supporting a terrorist group known as Kach, which espoused Kahanism, an extremist religious Zionist ideology.[6]
Under his leadership, the Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Power), a party which espouses Kahanism and anti-Arabism, won six seats in the 2022 Israeli legislative election, and is represented in what has been called the most right-wing and hardline government in Israel’s history.[7][8][9][10] He has called for the expulsion of Arab citizens of Israel who are not loyal to Israel.[10] Ben Gvir is “widely known for his openly racist, anti-Arab views and activities”.[11] Israeli sociologist Eva Illouz has said Ben Gvir represents “Jewish fascism”.[12]
[…] In the 1990s, he was active in protests against the Oslo Accords. In 1995, Ben-Gvir came to public attention for the first time, when he appeared on television brandishing a Cadillac hood ornament that had been stolen from Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin’s car, and declared: “We got to his car, and we’ll get to him too.” Several weeks later, Rabin was assassinated by right-wing extremist Yigal Amir.[14][24]
Please, I’m eating…
This was my thought as well. No one will ever be allowed back in that city. It will either be a military base or a wasteland for decades.
It does make sense in terms of working in a box for military awareness of enemy combatants. No expert, but that is something we’ve seen before.
The more accurate description is “Israel’s war against Palestine”. And, given the power difference and stated goals: “Israel’s ongoing genocide of Palestine”.
And if you think that it sounds a bit too disturbing, just try to imagine a pile of 4000 children. It might ruin your day.
I’m glad Lemmy doesn’t censor the amount of upvotes and downvotes.
It’s good to see how many people here support/oppose certain ideas.
Kind of a breath of fresh air after being on that other hellhole for so long.
Except on the instances that turn off downvotes so someone can post absolutely heinous shit and get no pushback.
Sorry, can’t use the G word apparently because there are almost 1 million Palestinians and Israel hasn’t tried to kill all of them. According to the big brains out there you can’t call out an attempt at genocide unless it’s full force, plain as day to see, and maximum death count.
…Sigh.
Genocide only occurs in Europe during WWII. If it’s not WWII Europe, it’s not genocide /s
It’s only sparkling mass killings
just try to imagine a pile of 4000 children
That’s an an impressive feat of coordination and athletic capability for everyone involved. Did you imagine a pyramid, because I did.
Here’s a solid case for downvoting based on “doesn’t contribute to discussion”.
I think conical would make more sense, no?
And the world will just watch as this campaign of ethnic cleansing continues. I’m sickened
Watching and hoping them quick success, at least for my part. A prolonged war would be the worst thing for everybody except the terrorists.
How do you define success? No more Gaza?
I sometimes wish I could be this disconnected from reality or empathy, or perhaps both. It would likely suck for everyone around me, so, I guess I’ll suffer through.
Why do you presume to think I have no empathy or that I would be disconnected from reality?
Because those with empathy wouldnt wish the success of a genocide
Aren’t you saying that you wish Israel could hurry up its process of killing 2.2 million people of which half being children?
What is the limit of this “quick success” you are hoping for?
Wasn’t Gaza already surrounded before all this? It’s a giant prison - it even has walls around the perimeter.
Yes but I think the point now is to take it.
They can say whatever bullshit lies they want, but a popular defense of the current situation is “they had a war and Israel won, so deal with it.” So following that logic, if they win this war against “Hamas” (they’ll consider all of Palestine Hamas of course) they’ll just take Palestine in this war.
I’m like 50/50 on it, but I can definitely see Israel just ending the issue on paper by making it all Israel. The problem of people becomes the UNs problem or other countries that actually give a shit about people.
The problem is that the Palestinians are stuck in Gaza because no one really cares about them. The Palestinians are more convenient as pawns to use in a proxy war against Israel (for example by Iran and Syria) than to actually achieve a permanent, stable arrangement. For Netanyahu, achieving a settlement alienates his base which wants to expel the Palestinians completely, and the conflict maintains anxiety that keeps him elected.
Which country able to absorb 2 millions refugees without causing catastrophic socioeconomic issues? Egypt certainly can’t do it. Even if it’s spread evenly among, say, 20 richest countries, 100k refugees is still a huge number to deal with and will cause many social issues for years until the refugees are fully integrated into the new society.
And even worse, Hamas uses them too. They have stockpiles of food and water and medicine that aren’t sharing with the Palestinians. They take aid meant for the Palestinians. They try to infiltrate refugee groups. They even dismantled a drinking water system the EU funded and used the pipes for rockets.
A global coalition needs to put boots on the ground and simultaneously evacuate civilians while engaging Hamas. They’re a pox on everyone.
The problem is that the Palestinians are stuck in Gaza because no one really cares about them.
Lots people across the world care about the plight of Palestinians. The US effectively bribes the ruling classes of several middle-eastern countries to prevent popular will from spilling over into open warfare to oppose Israel’s treatment of the indigenous population. It’s impossible to understand how Israel gets away with what it does without acknowledging this.
The issue isn’t about caring … the problem is that Palestinians, and the broader middle-east generally, are being oppressed by a western-backed settler-colonial movement.
The US had to twist Egypt’s arm to get them to accept refugees, so that doesn’t explain things entirely.
Quite a few Arab countries took in Palestinians in the past. The problem is that extremists embedded themselves with the refugees. Egypt, Lebanon, and Jordan all saw civil wars and strife from the extremists who wanted it to be a radical Islamic state. Jordan’s king was actually killed by the extremists and the conflict was called Black September. Subsequently, they aren’t eager to take in Palestinian refugees.
Bernie Sanders had a fantastic opinion piece the other day that lambasted Israel and Netanyahu, but very importantly, also said lasting peace could not be established without eliminating Hamas. This is a big reason why. Hamas is using the Palestinians.
I never actually said what my point was – this is a complicated conflict. It isn’t as easy as just blaming the US. There’s all sorts of geopolitics and history at play here.
The US had to twist Egypt’s arm to get them to accept refugees, so that doesn’t explain things entirely.
The reason why neighboring states are reluctant to accept refugees is that they know they will never be able to return, and the influx of people would destabilize their own societies.
The solution isn’t for other countries to start accepting refugees - it’s that the Israelis need to stop murdering them.
Earlier on Sunday, Israeli warplanes struck two central Gaza refugee camps, killing at least 53 people and wounding dozens, health officials said.
Israel said it would press on with its offensive against Hamas, despite US appeals for even brief pauses to get aid to desperate civilians.
The Palestinian health ministry said more than 9,700 Palestinians have been killed in the territory in nearly a month of war, more than 4,000 of them children. That toll likely will rise as Israeli troops advance into dense, urban neighbourhoods.
Air strikes hit the Maghazi refugee camp overnight, killing at least 40 people and wounding 34 others, the health ministry said.
The camp is in the zone where Israel’s military had urged Palestinian civilians to seek refuge.
Every day more of this. Israel clearly doesn’t care about civilians and children and will kill anyone it feels like killing.
There’s a survivor account translated by Electronic Intifada(mediabiasfactcheck rated them left bias, pro-palestine, mostly factual but not high due to no transparency on their funding, pinch of salt applies) saying IDF, in their effort to kill Hamas combatant, killed israeli held hostaged by Hamas in Be’eri in heavy crossfire, and also shelled the home to eliminate any hiding combatant.
There’s also an interview with IDF soldier on the front line that day, as reported by Gray Zone(extreme left, mixed fact, highly opinionated, kilogram of salt applies. They do quote their source though), saying they just shoot at suspected Hamas vehicle to prevent escape, knowing there’s a chance Israeli hostages is in it.
Their action in a month checks out with the account on the first few day of battle in Israel, as they bomb the tunnel, disregard the safety of the hostage they’re trying so hard to “rescue”, that the hostage might get crushed from the collapsing tunnel. They don’t care about collateral damage at all, and i fear the hostages that got killed from the ground assault will be pinned on Hamas.
It seems Hamas way overestimated how much compassion Israelis would have for hostages, journalists, or innocent children…
It’s a serious miscalculation. IDF has been show not giving a fuck about collateral damage. They shot children to disperse riot. They snipe children and tell the world the kids are armed. They murder journalist then blame it on Hamas.
According to the survivor account, Hamas purposefully inform the police and wait for them to come, instead of retreat with the hostage. They really thought they can talk it off with the police and IDF but they really don’t know their enemy at all.
Let’s not call it “collateral damage” when it’s deliberately shooting or bombing children or other civilians. The term “collateral damage” was the US military’s euphemism for supposedly accidental killing of civilians. The IDF doesn’t even care to make it look accidental.
You’re right, it’s murder.
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Cutting through gaza like tanks through tiananmen .
How many civilians did the Tiananmen Square rebels rape and murder?
Palestinian civilians are not Hamas.
Hamas is a spreading cancer and palestinian civilians are the (still) healthy cells. Do we have means of removing the cancer without damaging the healthy cells? It doesn’t seem like we do. But the solution cannot be to just let the cancer be, almost everything is a better choice than that.
ok, so you wholeheartedly support the Nazis idea of the “volkskörper”.
it’s somewhat ironic that Israel has convinced the world that it represents all Jews, but has also taken up the rest of the Nazi bullshit and people repeat it continuously (because the idea that a nation represents all people of X group is already blood and soil logic), I guess this is what happens when you have Nationalists and “X power party” in charge.
ok, so you wholeheartedly support the Nazis idea of the “volkskörper”.
Well no. If I had called palestinians the cancer of Israel, then my comment would’ve been disgusting bigotry at the level of the original nazis, but I was referring to only Hamas as being cancerous, and, as you might notice, I referred to palestinians as the healthy cells.
It’s not a great metaphor anyway, so perhaps I shouldn’t defend it this much.
no, you justified Palestinians needing to be killed because the caner of Hamas is growing in them
I worry that you think cancer is cured by killing its host.
We do, actually! You should read up on immunotherapy. It’s not for everyone, but it works in many cases.
The metaphor holds up, too. With sufficient time and effort, you can make things work.
I won’t deny existence of rapes in war but here, this is a lightning strike attack and according to the amount of casualties (maybe inflated, knowing Israel), I don’t see how hamas doing that would have time to rape anyone, capture and transport hostages without getting attacked by army or police which is everywhere.
so that’s multiple hospitals and refugee camps now essentially collected into a concentration camp.
Zionists deserve all the retaliation they get for this genocide.
Do they, though? Do the Palestinians deserve this retaliation for the terrorist acts committed by Hamas? I have no trouble calling this a genocide, and I have no doubt Israel and its supporters will face retaliation, but the people who suffer most are always the least culpable.
Isn’t this attitude of righteous retribution just perpetuating the cycle of violence? If we want peace, we must allow space for reconciliation. If we want equality, we must concede respect for our enemies. Otherwise, we might as well wipe them out entirely, which is precisely how Zionists are justifying this genocide.
Zionists and Hamas are two sides of the same coin.
Innocent Israelis and Palestinians do not deserve to suffer because of religious zealots.
If they are the religious zealots though… then they’re the ones causing this conflict in the first place.
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Hm, I might have fat fingered my comment and deleted it. That was weird.
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If it’s removed by mod/admin it will shows removed by moderator and it will shows up on modlog that’s viewable by public. Some mod might be untrustworthy but at least the system is transparent.
I have pretty fat fingers, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt :)
Please do literally anything else to show us the power of Flex Tape :(
meh??? I ain’t changing my xitter/fb/insta pfp to palestinian one.
#humanrights #icare #onlywhitechristianlivesmatter #noantisemitism
