This whole meme is based on a lie; people on a keto diet get harassed all the time.
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That’s it. Had a buddy do it. Would order Burger, no bun. Obviously, we made a joke out of it. And that’s it. Nobody cares.
Guilty conscience meat eaters use concern trolling to salvage their own self-esteem. In my experience, those expressions of worry are back handed compliments at best. They never come from people who are in better shape than I am and they don’t come from people with better nutrition either.
Wow you really nailed it.
I lost 58kg and the only things I ever heard was concern trolling from my friends that resented me for doing what they could not.
Never heard word one about my body while I was unhealthy and unhappy, and the shitty remarks started as soon as the weight reduction became noticeable.
“Woah slow down, don’t want you to disappear!” “You’ve proven your point! You can eat a donut!” “Why do you want to be miserable and only eat seeds?” “Fuck dude you’re vanishing! Eat a hamburger!” “You think you’re better than everyone now!” “It’s actually really unhealthy to be as lean as you’ve become.” “Don’t like hanging out anymore, you make me think about every molecule I put in my damned mouth!” “You look like a skeleton now.”
And so forth.
Wow those are shitty people. Good on you for losing that weight, as a hefty fellow it’s fucking haaaaard work and you should be proud of the effort you put in!
Thanks for the support!
I made so many changes in my journey. I taught myself to cook and made every meal from scratch ingredients… for 6 months. I’m reminiscing now thinking about how many tortillas I’ve pressed, sauces I’ve made, things I’ve fermented, and hundreds of hours on the cutting board. How many times I ordered a “kid size” pizza or sundae on my “cheat” days lol
I ran (poorly), swam, rode, lifted and burned so many calories. I meditated every day and did monthly therapy to help with the mental stress of the physical and lifestyle changes. That is all time, effort, pain, money, and sacrifice.
Every day without wavering I made a hundred difficult little choices that prioritized my goals vs my desires/old patterns. Food everywhere and people genuinely insulted when I wouldn’t partake with them or in their way. Watching my friends literally not enjoy their meal from their own shame, just because my serving was conspicuously smaller. Dealing with my biology compelling me to eat one way while I was consciously reprogramming myself to eat another way. Massive social pressures from all sides.
I never really even told anybody of my goals or changes. I didn’t make it my personality or a thing. Never spoke of it once or advocated anything to my friends. Only spoke about being slimmer when specifically asked.
That’s why it was so hurtful to undertake such tremendous responsibility for my own personal transformation, and then have people internalize it, make my journey about how them and how they feel shitty when they look at me, then make a snide or sinister comment. Only my best friend of 30 years gave me any positive feedback.
The whole thing was kind of a rough ride. Worth it in the end, but wow it was so much more than just eating less.
Thanks for listening. I really appreciate your comment a lot!
Such and interesting read and I hope you found it worth it in the end…! You’ve verbalised a lot of my experiences with quitting alcohol. It was the hardest thing I’ve done and lost a lot of ‘friends’ along the way. But ended up happier, healthier, and genuinely enjoying life again.
Good for you my friend! Yes it was the same thing when I quit alcohol 8 years ago! Quickly find out that people are happy for you to quit drinking until you actually do it, then it’s like … what you think you’re better than me? Come on have a drink!
Good on you, yeah you can’t downplay the fortitude required to make such life altering changes. It’s so easy to slip back into the status quo. That being said for anyone else reading, if you’ve tried, and failed, remember that you got further along than if you never tried at all. Keep at it, don’t beat yourself up, you can do it!
Congrats on the weight loss.
I had to stop at 40Kg because my heart meds went out of balance… and have pretty quickly gained 12Kg since.
Ah that’s interesting and something I hadn’t considered. I wasn’t really on any meds except Nexium at the time. Is your heart medication dose dependent on weight? I genuinely don’t know anything about the conditions or treatment.
What do you credit for the 12kg regaining? Just wondering, my weight still swings about 8kg this way and that but I seem to have generally stabilized in a range.
Is your heart medication dose dependent on weight?
It’s somewhat interesting, because the main heart meds are metabolic blockers (ramipril and bisoprolol, respectively an angiotensin-converting enzime inhibitor, and a beta1-selective blocker that inhibits cAMP phosphorylation), so they can only block certain metabolic paths and once that’s done, they can’t have more effect no matter the dose (they’re basically non-overdoseable).
But… at the same time, I had a diuretic added on (dapagliflozin) as part of a combined diabetes treatment, that used to work fine at the top weight, but at the bottom weight turned out to both reduce blood volume, impacting blood pressure, and lower blood sugar by too much, so that one had to go.
What do you credit for the 12kg regaining?
Reduction in stress (an extreme stress peak is what made me lose most of the weight), along with depression, and general despair due to a double back hernia that left me barely able to walk. I’m slightly better now after some physiotherapy, but still moving way less than before, so it’s anyone’s guess how it will go. It also made me switch to a worse diet, since I can’t stay up long enough to prepare healthier stuff.
Thanks for sharing, I don’t know why you are being downvoted or who is in this thread being a dick.
I’m gonna be honest, I wanted to argue against this, but I can’t deny it. I’m part of a relatively overweight family (actually mostly because of immune system problems that thankfully I didn’t inherit) and all I get from my parents are “You’re looking skinny” or “You’re worrying too much about weight” just because I want to exercise and eat well. Even then, I’m ~20lbs over weight. To be devil’s advocate, I think part of it is that overweight people have struggled with problems of being too hard on themselves before, and so don’t want to you fall into that, but go too far the other way. The conversation of overweight/vegans doesn’t exactly overlap perfectly, but it made me think of it.
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le epic funny 🤣🤣🤣
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Animals are there to be food.
You think animals are there for a fated reason? Like all animals have a destiny? Because your comment relies on this notion.
Sure if you’re both Stretch Armstrong lol. They’re both silly appeals to extreme.
Could you find a situation where something is there to be or do something without it being decided beforehand?
virtually nobody
The ones who felt guilty about it in this context have stopped doing it. You must have felt so smart though!
If there was a life form that could eat me it would, and I’d have to accept that.
Ever heard of cannibalism?.. or E. Coli, just get a bit in your blood and it will eat you in no time (aka: sepsis).
Virtually nobody who eats meat feels guilty about it
I felt guilty about it and became a vegetarian and, once I leaned about how milk and eggs lead to death and suffering, a vegan. I have been so for 10 years plus now.
Animals are there to be food.
Yes, but only in the same sense that woman are there for the plesure and serving of men. It’s a social construction and is, as it thankfully has with the perception of woman, changing.
If there was a life form that could eat me it would, and I’d have to accept that.
I don’t think so. I think you’d ramble in about how unethical it is to eat a sentient beeing and how cruel this hypothetical lifeform is. Because that’s how we are build. It’s easiest for us to feel empathie towards our own sorry asses.
You can learn to expand your empathie tough. Start here. Watch it completely. No skipping. Then we can talk:
Okay, let someone murder you and eat you if they are hungry then. Plenty of people go hungry each year, why don’t we eat each other? Or why won’t you capture and eat my dog?
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How do you know if you haven’t tried?
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You have to be truly deranged to compare the rights of lower lifeforms to those of humans.
This, ladies, gentlemen, and nonbinaries in finery, is what fascism looks like. “I’m biologically superior”, “I can do whatever I want with lesser beings”, “the whole world exists to serve me”, “I can create an industrial machine of killing for my pleasure”. That’s called fascism. And we don’t tolerate fascists.
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If there was a life form that could eat me it would, and I’d have to accept that.
So you don’t eat medicines?
“I dont have a conscience so I assume no one else does either.”
If there was a life form that could eat me it would
Yeah, it’s called COVID-19. It wants to use your cell nuclei to grow its children from your body’s energy stores, and it doesn’t mind if it shuts down your respiratory system until you can’t breathe. And there are a hundred deadly diseases like it.
Every time you wash your hands, blow your nose with a tissue, or cover your mouth to cough, you are showing you value life above the supposed right of predators to eat you. And that’s okay. Everything has a right to live and that’s okay.
Maybe it has become worse since all those vegan or vegetarian fast food options became available in stores and restaurants.
When I hear non-vegs talk about living meat-free, the conversation always revolves around these meat substitutes, how unhealthy they are.
It does not come to their mind one can prepare a meal from fresh produce. Yes of course, fast food is unhealthy. On the other hand, I like it.
Are the meat substitutes actually bad, though? Certainly can’t be worse than normal fast food.
Assuming you’re asking about things like impossible and beyond meat. They are generally not “healthy” but one stark difference is they don’t have cholesterol.
Whether something is healthy or not is very contentious in the first place, especially with how much misinformation there is out there.
I just try to read the labels on the replacements I buy, and most of them just have many random vegetables and stuff, with a seemingly good balance in nutrients and so on. Maybe there is stuff I’m missing, but I don’t see much bad that can be in there.
I think the most important thing is to just have a relatively balanced diet.
I’d say that they are as healthy as the burger king meat they are substituting. I wouldn’t eat either but if you are there, picking either is equally bad so whatever.
The unhealthiest part about them is just gonna be that they’re salty, fried and greasy, just like other fast food. It’s just a lump of plant fibres (usually peas or wheat these days, I find) thrown in a frier.
Yeah they are better than fast food, even the fast food is healthier if you sub the meat. But that is a terrible benchmark to use.
Compare these meat substitutes to the humble bean and it’s no contest.
I assure you these people are not eating healthy meals lol, it’s all bad faith because the idea of them not eating meat makes them feel threatened about the size of their peepee.
Mum: Eat your vegetables
Carnists: I’m gonna pretend I didn’t hear that
So you’re telling us you’re vegan.
Typical.
You can literally just read the comments from people who eat meat and see that they are more insufferable than vegans right here in this very thread
Always reassuring when carnists come on here to justify themselves on a vegan community. Honestly wouldn’t be a vegan space without those comments
It front paged. Nobody “came here” to defend themselves.
Right? They love coming over here to reassure themselves they’re not murderers.
It’s easier for them to shit on vegans than to admit to themselves that they are causing mass suffering
Anyone who eats meat is a murderer. I eat meat but only what’s hunted myself so I can be sure that animal wasn’t raised to die or all the other animal rights violations that come with the farming industry. I wouldn’t mind being hunted by a human or a bear aslong as I had a decent life and was able to experience things like freedom and they didn’t use any tools that I consider to be unfair like guns (knives and bows are okay but I prefer handmaking them on site) so the argument of “but what if u were the animal” doesn’t work for me because that’s how I got to this position.
I’m writing this mainly cause I’m curious abt your thoughts on my position. Do u think I’m as bad as farm industry users because I don’t mind eating meat, do u think I’m just a bit depressed and/or psychopathic because I wouldnt mind dying and killing or do u think my position is actually reasonable but its just not how u personally view the issue.
Anyone who eats meat is a murderer. I eat meat
That’s all you needed to say
I also have autism and have tried alot of vegan products. I’m not lying when I say I would starve if only given those to eat. Nuts do work for protein but I sorta binge eat them because they taste incredibly good and I think I developed a mild allergy so I don’t wanna eat them too often in case it gets worse
protein
there is other food than nuts which contains a lot of protein: https://imgur.com/mbEAg2g
I don’t like most of the foods in the images. I have found another solution though, by grinding pumpkin seed and baking it into bread.
Sounds good 😊
Yes you’re still bad because you could literally just eat beans but you go out and intentionally murder animals instead.
I have autism I couldn’t eat beans
Edit: I’ve starved myself for weeks before on things like school trips simply because there wasn’t any food I could eat so when I say couldn’t I’m not exaggerating
Edit 2: I tried eating nuts for protein because I don’t eat enough but I think I developed some form of allergy because I binge ate them because I liked them so much. If you wanna make me feel bad atleast help me find a good solution
I have autism I couldn’t eat beans
What?
I have sensory issues. Autism is a sensory disability which can cause sensory overload from things like bright lights, loud sounds or even certain textures like baked beans. I literally cannot live a normal life and just do things like eat baked beans in the same way a depressed person can’t just be happy
The only foods I’ve eaten in the past few weeks is bread sometimes I have it with tomato. I am an extremely picky eater and not by choice
Edit: I’m actually curious abt this because I struggle to believe someone doesn’t know what autism is especially on lemmy but would u rather me starve because of a condition that I have no control over?
I know what autism is and I of course don’t want you to starve, I just had no idea what you meant when you said that you couldn’t eat beans because of it.
FWIW I don’t like eating baked beans by themselves, either. Are you okay with beans as an ingredient, like in soup, chili, or burritos?
I just want to chime in and say it is interesting to find a hunter in every vegan thread like this, even though i have not met one irl (i guess because i live in a huge ass city).
also it’s totally not scalable to our large populations. we need to find solutions that are good for the environment and also can be applied to everyone.
(yes, a very small minority of people can only eat meat)
I live in the countryside of a sparsely populated but very small country. I would imagine location is a fairly big factor
I think you’re still murdering an animal who wanted to live his life just as much as anyone.
Well I wouldn’t mind dying even by a human if it was in the same way I hunt. So r u telling me its fine? I’d very much doubt that’s what u mean from the (perceived) tone, but ur acc words are saying that cause I did mention before I don’t really mind dying like that yk it’s fair and I had a chance to survive it’s just natural selection at that point. I wouldn’t enjoy it for sure and def not in the moment but I wouldn’t care all that much either infact I’d probably prefer to be killed by an animal so that my body can be eaten and reused as fuel for plants and animals rather than wasted.
so you only hunt with your bare hands?
I know how to make and use a knife, stake and bow. Bows are a bit fuckey because u have to use intestine. Stakes are the easiest to make albeit they’re a bit difficult to use emotionally. I prefer knives and I try to make them as sharp as possible to minimise pain.
so how is that a fair fight? Why do you use technology rather than your natural powers?
Sounds like you are just like all the other animal abusers.
Veganism isn’t about farming animals, it is about treating not them like property and exploiting them. Stop fucking killing animals you are cruel and evil.
I don’t treat them like property except for my dog ig but I also doubt I’d murder my dog because of the emotional bong the same way a bear wouldn’t murder its cub. I’m only okay with murdering them whenever they have a fair chance (e.g. no guns or other weapons you can’t make on site), they’re adults and they’re wild born and haven’t been held in captivity. I’d be okay with being murdered on those terms so I assume animals would be too
you are a bit ridiculous.
I’m a bit depressed yk haven’t lived the happiest life so maybe I don’t care abt death as much as other but I am genuinely okay with being murdered like that atleast I had a fair chance. I also think you should avoid it where possible but if u have sensory issues like I do and u haven’t found a food that works as a protein intake source then yea go for it. If someine came to me and I could tell they were emotionally distraught about how they can’t eat anything other than meat for a decent source of protein I’d be okay with them eating me and i wouldnt want to die solely for it but it would feel noble in a way so I’d prefer that death to a random one. I’d also be okay with a bear eating me for sustenance even tho I assume it doesnt feel bad abt it so I assume others would feel the same too including animals. Id prefer to eat human meat if there wasnt any health risks and it consented and was legal however its not. My position is solely based on “what would I want done to me?” It’s just my opinions of that are obviously very different from the average vegans. I don’t really eat meat often because I’m able to recognise the suffering that comes with it because of my practices around it.
Slavery is worse than murder. In an ideal world we would end murder as well, but I consider it less horrible.
Imma preface this by saying I’m talking abt a very small section of the population.
I don’t think we could really get rid of meat eating entirely. I mean 100% all the people who do it because its the “best” source of protein or just because they prefer it over other things however there is actual medical conditions like arfid and autism that could cause people to have the only logical source of protein be meat. I myself am autistic and I try to avoid meat where I can because I wouldnt enjoy dying and know animals wouldnt however none of the other solutions ive tried could work long term hence why ive tried finding ways to minimise the harm. My diet is just overall very restrictive in the past few weeks ive basically just eaten various bread products sometimes plain sometimes with tomato. I’m not saying you are cause u honestly come off as quite civil but I’ve noticed a tendency for online vegans to get quite aggressive over the issue which feels (this is a very strong word but I can’t think of a better one) almost ableistic to me as if some autistic people could never be morally correct. If u listened to the end of my wee rant, thank you.
I have autism and arfid. And I fundamentally do not believe in the premise that there exists any disability that forces you to harm or kill others. Except for vampirism. But we all know that Dracula deserves to die for being a bloodsucking rapey murderer, regardless of whether he has a choice. If I believed a disability could force someone to be evil, then I would be forced to believe in treating those people like Dracula. Thankfully, I reject the premise, and believe that powerful technologies of the physical and mental can overcome anything.
Well fundamentally sure I agree but realistically nah. I can’t really spend all day just researching and trying new foods for time and financial reasons. If I could I would but the only logical option I’ve found so far is meat. I haven’t eaten it in months and I almost definitely do need protein but it is hard for me to kill animals so I do try and avoid it but its stopping me from eating healthy. I’d genuinely rather just not get enough protein and expeirence protein deficiency than eat the vegan alternatives for it because all the ones I’ve tried r that bad to me.
Are potatoes and ramen not safe foods for you? I love them. Also, I recently tried Tofu out, and it is the blandest thing I have tasted in my life, which means it’s perfect. I just slap on whatever sauces and spices I want, and the texture is so so inoffensive.
The problem is regardless of how or when you take an animal’s life you’re still taking an animal’s life. You clearly view them as less than human instead of viewing them as having the same right to life as anyone/anything else.
You can and do choose to eat meat when it isn’t required to sustain you.
I wouldn’t mind dying under those circumstances. I’m treating the animal as I’d want to be treated myself. How am I viewing them as sub-human? I personally wouldn’t kill even a consenting human because of laws but I’d rather eat consenting human meat assuming it was safe ans ethically sourced (e.g. not a company that gets you to sign a misleading agreement).
Edit: Infact when I die I want to be thrown in a forest and eaten by animals and absorbed by the ground though I imagine there’s laws preventing this
You wouldn’t kill a human because of laws? This implies you would kill humans if it weren’t illegal…
I didn’t think autism is your real problem… You might be a sociopath.
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Yea this is basically my current position on meat eating. In the most likely far future I’d probably rather animal farming everywhere to be banned however ud need to ensure the people who depend on it can still eat which could be hard to do in the present for various reasons. Same with hunting I’d prolly rather that be banned and have specialised dieticians for people with sensory issues who would be able to dedicate time to finding a food that works for people rather than the other person having to interrupt their life for it.
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that’s how I feel about pro choice communities. a lot of mumbling that just serves to justify their murderous tendencies. except murdering a baby is worse than murdering an animal.
Scrolling down half i the comments has give me a true headache. Why do you guys feel the need to explain your consumption to vegans? Not like we have not heard your “arguments” a thousand times before.
Oh wait, you arent trying to justify your actions to us but to yourself?
I’ve done both vegan and keto for over a year at some point during my life and what I will say is that I naturally cover my nutrition bases through preferences and desires, while vegan though I had to hunt down (forgive the pun) b12 and complete proteins combinations a little more diligently to cover my nutrition needs.
Or put differently, I think it’s easier to mess up a vegan diet than a keto one.
Man the chuds in this thread really proving the OP right
why are there so many triggered omnis in this thread lmao
The post is on the front page
They don’t like feeling bad for the terrible things they do.
trolling vegans is one of the internet’s greatest past times, please respect my culture.
Murder is so hilarious guys!
see how easy it is ^^^
Many people start with the troll. it’s nothing most vegans have not dealt with a lot.
the best part is though, the troll gets exposed to the arguments for being vegan. there is probably a reason why they are so concerned with belittling and debasing.
Long story short, they often convert. Keep trolling bro.
Seriously, I’m not used to seeing this many comments with so many votes going either way. The post is so harmless.
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A whole stick of butter? Like, unfried? Reminds me of the time we had houseguests, opened up the butter dish and found teeth marks.
No one believes it’s the cat, Susan.
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I went to college with a girl who would make butter popsicles - she just stuck popsicle sticks into sticks of butter and froze them, then ate them like popsicles. She didn’t have any kind of special diet, she just liked butter popsicles.
She had the worst skin FWIW.
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it’s defensiveness. a person who eats 19 strips of bacon for every meal doesn’t threaten the average omnivore. that person is arguing that they should do more of what they want to do anyway. the existence of a happy, healthy vegan, OTOH, threatens omnivores. it tells them that there is a choice other than meat, and what that does is force them to acknowledge that eating meat is a choice and that if you make that choice you’re responsible for the consequences. if you live in a world where meat is necessary, let’s call it the ferret diet because they’re my favorite obligate carnivores, then you didn’t really have a choice at all. as factory farming imposes cruelty on animals at the individual level and huge damage to the environment and climate on a collective level, the ferret diet allows you to say “🤷🤷 what are you gonna do?” veganism is an attempt to answer that question, and it’s a valid one. there are plenty of people who don’t eat any sort of animal product and are still happy and healthy. veganism threatens them because it makes the suffering they create a choice that they’ve made, rather than an inevitable consequence of being an obligate omnivore. removed at vegans, trying to poke holes in vegan diets, all it is is an attempt to shed responsibility for your own life choices by pretending there never was a choice.
I’m no nutritionist, but I’m reasonably sure that any reasonable diet, whether keto or vegan can be accomplished while maintaining proper nourishment.
The thing is, most people’s diet isn’t even providing full nourishment. There’s usually something that’s missing that people are simply not aware is missing, or they’re getting in such low quantities that it’s unhealthy. IMO, the main problem is a lack of education on the matter. I was taught the food pyramid in grade school. It’s barely relevant, and it was literally the only diet and nourishment education I recieved from my first world primary/highschool education. Unless you are going into health science or nutritionist type college credits, nobody takes the time to learn anything further about it later on. They just eat, and don’t really think about it. I certainly didn’t for a very long time.
Additionally, when I learned about the food pyramid, the examples didn’t really make a lot of sense to me, since at the time I had barely touched any food preparation tasks, nor dealt with food that wasn’t ready to eat already (usually prepared by my parents), and I had no context for what a “grain” really was, or why bread was considered a “grain” in the pyramid. I was stupid. In many ways, I still am. Yet, later in life, I don’t know of anyone who is running their meal plan through a professional nutritionist before making the food. I don’t know of anyone who, even if they have a meal plan, even knows a nutritionist who can consult on whether the good that they eat will provide the nutrition that they actually need.
The general population seems to put most of their trust in food makers, the corporations that make ready to eat food, to have accounted for their nutritional needs. Places like fast food restaurants, normal restaurants and those that make recipes, and most of their interest is in making food you’ll enjoy, more than food that will actually provide the nutrition you need.
On top of that, even most doctors won’t, by default, order tests to ensure all of your nutritional needs are met, and unless you have a symptom resulting in a significant deficiency of something, you would never know if you’re behind or not getting enough of something. I can hear the comments now, “but if they’re not being affected, why does it matter?” … The thing is, they are being affected, just not significantly enough for them to be able to draw a correlation or even really complain about it.
So at the end of the day, we’re probably all malnourished in some way, or at least, there’s a nontrivial amount of people who are unaware that they’re malnourished, which isn’t being caught, and nobody has the knowledge or understanding to know it’s even happening. The education on nourishment is so lackluster that is easily forgotten by most and instead we learn about factorials and trigonometry which most people never use past highschool.
I’m summary, more people than you would expect are likely unaware that they’re malnourished, and the education system would rather teach you maths you’ll never use than ensure you can feed yourself properly. The whole thing is fucked, and it’s ironic when people lecture or question anyone about their nourishment needs, given how little any average person has been taught about proper nourishment. Everything is fucked and everybody sucks.
