As an American, I’d like to dump America if Trump becomes president again.
We don’t even need to do anything, he’ll do all the work for us when he gets reelected…
Well based on their comment of as an American, they’ll have to have dark skin or something and then Trump’s “great america” will take it’s toll
Eventually. Their current boogyman is trans people followed by LGBTQ+ in general. They’ll get around to non-white and non-christian people eventually though.
Loyal and racially pure Germans burned and died just as well as the dissidents.
40% of Australia has their head on.
While I agree, this survey is based on less than 1% of the population. The article does not clearly cite its sources. ‘Based on 1019 responses’ from who? Sydneysiders? People from the NT?
This uncited survey from a for profit company, with major shareholders being venture capitalists, asset managers, shitbags, etc. with a history of possible poll manipulation means nothing.
I expect better from the Guardian
this survey is based on less than 1% of the population.
Yes, that’s how polls work.
And surprise surprise they have the predictive value of about chance.
You really need to look into the concept of statistical sampling. It’s how just about all science works, and I can assure you science works.
While I don’t disagree, polling is the absolute worst example of scientific analysis. There are so many easy ways they can be swayed…leading questions, framing questions, selection bias, etc. And that gets used to form manipulative articles based on intentionally misreresentative facts.
Polls really need to be taken with context and a grain of salt.
Those are valid critiques.
And you really shouldn’t be having this conversation with a former testing engineer.
You can’t compare these garbage polls with what goes on in the science+engineering landscape. The main difference is if we are wrong there are consequences for being wrong.
OK, so something with no citations or methodology is gospel, got it…
OK, so something with no citations or methodology is gospel, got it…
I didn’t say that, now did I? I simply pointed out that criticizing a survey for being based on “less than 1% of the population” is fucking stupid because that’s just how polling works. Got it? Good. We’re done here.
The article does not clearly cite its sources. ‘Based on 1019 responses’ from who? Sydneysiders? People from the NT?
This uncited survey from a for profit company, with major shareholders being venture capitalists, asset managers, shitbags, etc. with a history of possible poll manipulation means nothing.
Was that edited in after the fact? Why are people dogpiling based on that first sentence and ignoring the rest?
No it was not edited after.
My point of contention was not just less than 1%, it was no citations as well. You just used that part.
If I ask 1000 ac/dc fans what the best music genre is they probably are not going to say soft rock.
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The irony of course is that the gospels were made up completely. Except for the part in Luke and John where they admit to coping from other writers.
While I agree, this survey is based on less than 1% of the population.
The fact that the survey is uncited is a problem, but polling is a science, and you only need a relatively small amount, with proper weighting, to get reliable results.
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Meant to edit, accidentally deleted.
Is it weighted? How? Who was polled? All Melburnians or people whose favorite joke is ‘Show us your map of Tazzie’? With no sources or methodology it means nothing. The moon is made of cheese.
I agree with what you’re saying for the most part, but for a population the size of Australia with 1000 respondents, a 99% confidence level has a margin of error of 4% which is perfectly acceptable. Unless the survey targeted very specific demographics versus a random sample, it should be very accurate.
That was my point though, we have no idea who was surveyed.
Agreed. YouGov is garbage. They are owned by christian nationalists of the Tory variety. There is nothing governmental about them, and they meddle in public opinion of foreign countries. Their polls rarely show the source information. I’ve seen them post absurd things, like quietly polling a catholic church and being like, “98% of Americans oppose abortion”. I don’t know who exactly they polled, cause they won’t tell us most of the time.
How high are you right meow?
No they don’t, they’re idiots. Severing a valuable longstanding alliance because you don’t like their current leader, who will be in power for at most, another 4 years is an incredibly short-sighted decision.
Cut off the nose to spite the face energy.
who will be in power for at most, another 4 years
Trump already attempted one coup to remain in power. You’d have to be a moron to think he’d willingly step down after a second term. Particularly since he’s on the record saying that he wants to be president for life - multiple times.
I mean, I’m sure he’ll have a massive coronary or stroke before he finishes his second term, if he even lives past his felony trials.
if he becomes president the trials wil almost certainly stop
Just like how Kim Il Sung died, and suddenly North Korea was free!
But, they can start supporting again after 4 years. Seems pretty short sighted to not think about 5 years +.
I mean, what would “dumping our alliance” even look like? Cut off trade? Deny travel? I get the sentiment but this is just stupid, not to mention Australia’s own right wing woes.
They could stop military cooperation, they could severely limit trade, they could begin to require Americans to have visas for entry.
Don’t forget this is a poll not a diplomatic statement from the Aussie gov. If it was they would have outlined what would be expected.
Though one would expect Australia to be a little more tactful when it come to foreign policy announcements or opinions on an ally’s head of state or elections for the position.
Remove as a friend on faceboot
This is probably as good a place and time as any to reflect on how everything went as terribly wrong as it had to get in order for clowns like Trump to not be laughed out of politics.
Politics had to fall very far, very hard, to get to the point where enough people felt like voting at all was a waste of time- and probably the biggest single factor I can point out is when the Neoliberals took over the Democrats, American Labor lost its only champion, Antitrust law lost its only advocate, and both major parties in the USA essentially became handmaidens to corporate power. While this was happening, the GOP, long since a dark-money puppet organization, abandoned any pretense of doing anything in the public interest and became a full-throated howl of corruption and voter suppression and gerrymandering.
When both major parties in a duopoly system take turns tag-teaming the working class for their donors’ profit margins, you can expect that working class to radicalize, leftwards and rightwards, it’s what happens every time when a working class realizes it’s being objectively fucked. There was a reason Weimar Germany was so full of left-socialists and right-fascists, the middle had thoroughly failed and it turns out that when given the choice, status-quo-liberals will always choose fascism over socialism.
Biden is the most pro labor president in decades.
That, that’s the exact problem he is pointing out.
This is true and very welcome, but TBH that’s a very low bar to clear and a long time coming. Up until the Biden admin started taking action, union protections have been steadily eroded since the Reagan admin. and with that, union membership went on a decades-long collapsing trend (and with it, so did labor’s buying power).
The point to my above post was that it had to get very dark for a candidate like Trump to get any oxygen whatsoever, and if there’s one way to drive despair in democracy, it’s to make people that grew up expecting to live middle-class lives into poor people.
The most pro labor president in decades being an union buster just reinforces the point.
Unions shouldn’t even be necessary. There are more voters than there are companies, by a very wide margin. The fact that enough people in the right places are able to be convinced to vote against improving their own conditions is really the problem.
Unions are stronger than they’ve been in decades. Stop falling for clickbait and look at the actual results.
Are they stronger due to changes by the current government? Or are they stronger because the economy is weaking and more and more people are rembering that forming/joining unions can help improve their working conditions?
https://prospect.org/labor/2023-08-28-bidens-nlrb-brings-workers-rights-back/
Many of the positive changes can be traced to this.
I don’t disagree that that may help, it’s hard to draw a direct link between the two with the data I can see.
I guess we’ll have to wait for more data to come out.
The data I can find shows no improvement to union rates over Biden’s term https://www.statista.com/statistics/195349/union-membership-rate-of-employees-in-the-us-since-2000/
Some unions are stronger. I’m in a union and I don’t even have paid sick time after we just signed our first contract post covid. It makes me feel like it’s kind of useless, but it’s still better than no union. It’s an extremely mediocre feeling.
The major changes and gains have all happened in the last few months. It’ll take some time for the effects to spread out.
Those are decades of being wildly off course not just in labor but in environment, regulation, infrastructure, and innovation.
You’re right, but I worry you’re wrong about why you’re right.
Mmmhmm
The USA get one “we did something unthinkably stupid” free pass.
No way would they ever reelect that literal fascist after he all but tried to dismantle their institutions and install himself as a democratic dictator.
They’re not that stupid, and if they are? We should all cut ties, don’t want to be dragged down with the ship. But it won’t come to that.
I know at least one person who, after saying they don’t like Trump and agreeing that he has done several illegal things, said that they would rather have Trump as president than Biden again.
It’s certainly not impossible that he gets elected again.
We are that stupid.
We really are. It’s still bad here
The USA get one “we did something unthinkably stupid” free pass.
They used up all those passes during the Bush administration.
Remember when we thought Bush was the low point in American history, and it couldn’t get more absurd than “Freedom Fries”? Good times.
Don’t diminish what a shit bag Bush was.
At least Trump didn’t invade a country and kill tens of thousands of people under false pretenses.
yet.
Believe it or not…and what you and others can’t appear to accept… That orange man is in the past.
“Trump can’t possibly get elected”
I think I’ve heard this one before…
they used up all those passes when they had to go to war over whether slavery is bad and should be banned
Wait until you hear what country started slavery in America.
…
Well, it’s technically Spain, but you know.
No way would they ever reelect
They’re not that stupid
I’m getting these vibes from this comment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Oczyk6nCw
Which terrifies me.
We should all cut ties, don’t want to be dragged down with the ship
Cutting ties with the most powerful country in the world? Not going to happen.
Honestly, how can anyone say he won’t be elected again? Have we learned nothing?
Well for one thing he’s not running against Hillary Clinton this time.
A good point but I still won’t rule out anything
Yeah, don’t get complacent, but don’t listen to the sky-is-falling doomsayers that spam every political thread either. The Republicans have been doing poorly in every election since 2018, and between the chaos in the House and the law finally catching up with Trump things aren’t looking good for them in 2024.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=Z6Oczyk6nCw
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Can’t blame them. God forbid it happens.
Almost 40% think Australia should dump US alliance if Donald Trump returns as president, poll finds
And I wouldn’t hold it against them if they did. If we’re dumb enough to re-elect a fascist that already attempted one coup to remain in power then we should be dropped by all our allies. We would be a security risk at that point.
America’s institutions are resilient, especially the military and security state components, even if the latter often vacillate between amoral and immoral.
They’re vulnerable, and under heavy strain, but they aren’t so brittle that one man can destroy them singlehandedly.
My point isn’t that we have nothing to fear from another Trump presidency, it’s that for most of America’s security partners, they don’t really have any other good alternatives at the moment. So for better, or worse, they’ll stick around for as long as it’s necessary for them, because America’s ability to project power transcends the oval office.
If anyone could change their calculations, it’s Trump, but it would because of a situation he caused, or escalated, not just his reelection.
only 40% seems disturbingly low.
In other news only 40.01% of Australians care about US politics.
lolz
Almost 40% of most democratic country’s populations would probably agree with most dumb and provocative ideas presented in a poll… especially now days with how partisan everything has become.
That said the Australia/ USA alliance is more important than any particular administration or head of government either our Australian government or the US government.
It’s an alliance of enormous mutual benefit that frankly is not going anywhere.
Australia is an enormous unsinkable aircraft carrier rich in resources, far enough from potential adversaries in the region to provide extremely strong defence in depth in the region. We use common platforms and tactics in battle, and have extensive integrated combat experience.
Perhaps even more important than any of that, it would be politically unacceptable I believe to our populations to turn our back on each other at this point, so many of us have personal friends and family in each other’s country.
We might occasionally have disagreements like any family does, and we might not like everything about each other but that’s how it goes with family. Any other country trying some shit I feel will find out fast that our alliance is stronger than it has ever been.
The US, UK and Australia have a bond forged in the fire of conflict and quenched in blood, anyone who wants to try and fuck with one should probably be ready for a fight with all… not to be overly dramatic.
40% of Australia? I wasnt asked? (But I agree)
I bet some large amounts of money against his win the last time he was on, because I thought that if he gets a second term, everything gonna be completely fucked anyway so it won’t matter if I lose a few monies. That worked out fine.
I’m scared to do it the same way this time for some reason.
I mean, understandable but still a terrible idea. More than ever Australia, Europe, the US need each other.
For what?
I mean we can just hand over the keys to the BRICS, maybe they’ll do a better job than we did.
BRICS is Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa.
Of those, only Brazil and South Africa are not currently engaged in ethnic cleansing.
Is that really what we want to gamble on?
No that was kind of my point :)
Oh, sorry, lol.
Surprised it’s not 60% honestly.
You all need to remove your sense of morality from foreign policy calculations made by any government. It’s about power, always about power. You may personally view one nation’s values as better and therefore their ideas of power more moral, but still, it’s about power.
For Australia specifically, they are reliant on the US Naval power projection for their conception of Australian national security, which is why even their new Labor government is still moving ahead with AUKUS. It why Australia has always sent their troops to fight in America’s wars (post-WW2), rightly or wrongly.
Even after Vietnam was so bad for Australia that they revamped their entire military to become a “defensive” force and not an explicitly expeditionary one, they still fought in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Those were all chips put into the American security pot, that they’re hoping to be able to call in when they need it.
Those reasons, and more, are why I’m confident that even with Trump, it would take something so drastic and catastrophic to change their calculations, that I don’t want to even try and imagine what that would be. Even if I’m sure Trump could manage to cause whatever catalyst that would be necessary. Still, it wouldn’t just be his reelection. It would be something so much worse.
So how long will people continue to think like that and by result let everything fall apart?
Without morality, life is meaningless.
I’m not saying that is how things should be, I’m talking about how they actually are.
That doesn’t mean I endorse, or support, the status quo. Just that I recognize what it is, and the implications that has on international relations.
I am aware. I mean to say that we need to stop just accepting things as they are and start changing them.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A significant minority of Australians think the country should withdraw from the overall Anzus security alliance with the US if Donald Trump returns to the White House, while just under half of the respondents in a new poll believe the Aukus pact locks Australia in to supporting the US in any armed conflict.
But after the steady thaw in diplomatic relations between Canberra and Beijing over the past 12 months, and the release of Australia’s defence strategic review in April, 49% say that now.
A majority of Australian respondents (63%) believe China will become the most economically and militarily influential country in Asia over the coming couple of decades (32% say the US will be the pre-eminent power).
The new poll findings follow Anthony Albanese’s return from an official visit to Washington and ahead of the prime minister’s trip to Shanghai and Beijing at the end of this week.
Seven months after Albanese joined Biden and the British prime minister, Rishi Sunak, in San Diego to announce the Aukus plans, there remains uncertainty over congressional approvals needed for them to succeed.
Asked on Tuesday whether or not he was walking a diplomatic tightrope between the strategic competitors – Washington and Beijing – the prime minister said Australians wanted him “to be direct about our interests”.
The original article contains 792 words, the summary contains 215 words. Saved 73%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
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There are so many answers to this but the most egregious of all is trying to overthrow the democratically elected government through any and all means. Shouldn’t be hard to understand.
He’s also under 90 felony indictments for fraud and espionage
I am not defending Trump in any shape or form. I am saying there are more devious ways to authorianism happening right now
Oh yeah, we’re really lucky he’s an idiot in addition to being a boorish liar who only gets idiot lackies to work for him. He might have actually overthrown the government.
What I am saying is that it’d be great if US people had 1 percent of this zeal when speaking against actual war crimes that Biden is condoning. But of course at least he mostly knows how to speak so let’s just all keep focusing on Trump for another year or so.
What’s the weather like in your reality?
I don’t see any 24/07 media attacks on Biden in the same way I saw with Trump. As someone not in the USA I see Biden as having much more of a terrible effect than Trump ever did. Some criticism of Trump is warranted but it sometimes borders on some weird hysteria where it obscures everything else. He is used as a way to obscure many systematic issues that were always already there and took even a bad turn now with Biden. The focus on Trump even now shows that he plays this role of obscuring and diverting attention. Why do you think people keep talking about him even if he has basically no power now ?
Perfect example of “muh both sides” being used to excuse terrible behavior by right-wingers. It’s almost universally the case where it is used.
What I’m saying here has been said over and over again by leftist theorists who see the obsession with Trump as actually a mistake. It remains on the surface as this kind of politics of negativity (negativity in the philosophical sense )
I am actually a leftist who wants a proper left and not some dressed up liberal shit that’s just a consumable authoritarianism.
Ok that’s a fair point. But I see him used as a kind of scapegoat that masks what is happening now. No matter how fucked are US policies now some would day “at least it’s not Trump.” There was never a chance of him overthrowing anything tbh. The riot that happened are kind of a joke and they didn’t even know wtf to do once they got inside so they just took selfies. It’s a terrible look of course but I don’t think there was any great danger given what it would take to actually overthrow a government in the US.
It was not just a riot. It was a (thankfully failed) insurrection. He wanted to delay the counting of the electoral votes, maybe never count them at all. And if that failed, he and his minions plotted to put fake electors in place to get the votes of blue states thrown out. He pressured the VP to ignore the constitution and declare him president via the fake electors. Had Mike Pence had a little less integrity, it would have worked.
Trump’s loose lips that shared secret information with foreigners. We lost many operatives around the world following his spillage of state secrets.
It’s the stealing and refusing to return top secret/compartmentalized documents. It’s 91 federal indictments related to all the above. It’s the fact that he’s under indictment in more than one state.
If none of that is enough for you:
He dismantled the US pandemic rapid response centers, sentencing many Americans to death when Covid hit. He downplayed the virus, attacked the surgeon general & mocked him, refused to wear a mask or take any precautions at all. And he led close to half the country with him, causing Covid to hit us much more severely than it could have. He suggested using bleach and light internally as a cure.
He drew on a map with a sharpie, to show us all where we should make a hurricane hit.
He’s a vindictive man who delayed/withheld aid to California after devastating wildfires because they had not voted for him. “If they don’t like me, I don’t like them.”
He is a man who acts like a toddler with the vocabulary of a third grader…a truly stupid man with mob-like tendencies.
He’s aligned himself with white supremacists.
He’s bragged about seeing teenage girls nude in the miss teen america dressing room. He has bragged about kissing women without their permission, of grabbing them by the pussy, talked earnestly about how big his newborn daughter’s boobs would get, talked about how he’d date her if she wasn’t his daughter, cheated on all his wives, buried one of them on a golf course, failed to maintain the burial site…just to save a couple of tax dollars.
He fleeced the elderly and uneducated of this country by giving them fake coins and dollars in exchange for donations. He stiffed contractors and lawyers by failing to pay them after they’ve earned their pay.
He is, at best, a pig who lusts for power and if he gets it back, he’ll not willingly let go.
So it’s not just a joke riot. Trump did actual damage and is continuing to do so today by holding the entire GOP by the balls.
Scapegoat??? Maybe look up that term means. He’s the cause of much of the shit and continues to be. He spews hate and lies, so much that a large percentage of the population actually doubts the 2020 results.
And what if just a few more people had went along with him? What if Pence threw out the votes? What if Barr went along with his story that the election was stolen? What if the rioters had gotten to the Representatives on Jan 6th? Might that gallows have been used? How many more would have went along with the lie just to avoid being caught up in violence?
The world and the US have a lot of problems completely unrelated to Trump, but he made none of the problems better, many worse and created some of its worst unlike any other president in history.
I know what scapegoating means. It has a specific sense in ideology critique (for example in Zizek’s Sublime object of Ideology). It means a figure in which a systematic issue is projected in order to mask the system itself. I am not saying Trump was good. I am saying the hysteric focus on him as this evil detached from the system, instead of a symptom and the culmination of it, is scapegoating. It doesn’t mean he is good. Even now when Biden condones war crimes we are hearing about Trump who has no power whatsoever. Trump is used to not confront what is there and what may give rise to other Trumps or maybe to some politically correct genocide suppoeter as a president.
I dont think you will get an answer. Here is a list of accomplishments and actions under Trump while in presidency. You can compare that to Biden.
With this as the foundation, I can make a lengthy comment to refute what you said but I think it would be helpful if you took the time to read these and compare. Trump was just not good at his job.
personally, i think mocking disabled people, being bigoted, denying that a disease exists leading to thousands of preventable deaths, starting an attempted coup, and rape are all pretty bad. conservatives have different views on morality tho 🤷
Have you ever listened to the guy? In no other country on this planet would he be in charge of anything.
Because of what he says or because of what he does though? Trump said all kind of crazy shit but I don’t see him as quantitatively different from what is happening now. The truth lies in what is done not what is said and the entire facade of word plays. My contention is that Biden is so much worse while actually knowing how to dress things up in a diplomatic and politically correct way. I’d rather have someone speak bullshit than have politically correct destruction of the middle east
Holy shit you’re really fucking stupid.
For a little while, I was afraid he might nuke some innocent country or start WW3. I was surprised at how light his had was on the wheel.
I largely agree that he talk shit but does little. Not nothing, but he could have done much worse, IMHO. Mostly bark and a little bite.
