I’m trying out Obsidian for taking notes, and this made me laugh.

    • SatanicNotMessianic
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      One of my first computer jobs was working in a student computer lab at my undergraduate university. This was back in the mid 90s-ish.

      We had three types of computers - windows machines running 3.1 or whatever was current then, Macs who would all do a Wild Eep together when they rebooted en masse, and Sun X Windows dumb terminals that were basically just (obviously) unix machines for all intents and purposes. This was back when there were basically like 5 websites total, and people still hadn’t heard of Mosaic.

      So everyone wanted the windows and Mac boxes, and only took the xterms when there was nothing else open. I was the primary support person for them since none of the other people wanted to learn Unix and I was the only CS major.

      The X boxes suffered from two main learning hurdles. One was that backspaces were incorrectly mapped into some escape key sequence, and the other is that it would drop you from (I think) pine into emacs as a mail editor as soon as you hit it. 90% of my time was telling people how to exit emacs. It was that, putting more paper into the printers, and teaching myself more programming than I was learning in classes.

      • modeler@lemmy.world
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        My god that brought back memories. The first commands when sitting at a new terminal was always, always:

        stty sane

        stty erase '^H'

        It was well into the 2000s before Unix had useable defaults.

      • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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        1 year ago

        God, I remember the backspace thing. I hope whoever allowed a computer to be shipped in that condition got fired.

    • folkrav@lemmy.world
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      It’s hard to hate nano, but IMHO there also isn’t anything to like in particular either. It’s basically a TUI notepad. It’s there, it lets people edit files… and that’s pretty much all there is to it.

      • killeronthecorner@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        You can use nano without having to read anything about nano. That might be the only thing that is better about it than vim, but it’s a damn important thing.

        • nautilus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 year ago

          I have zero patience when trying to make small adjustments to files, which is what my command line text editor should be for. Nano just has everything at the bottom in case you forget (I do, frequently) so the workflow is ridiculously streamlined for me

                • DaPorkchop_
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                  1 year ago

                  Personally I’d be somewhat nervous using dd to edit parts of a text file, but you do you :)

                • bpm
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                  1 year ago

                  yy to copy, dd to cut, p to paste. Need to move 5 lines at once? No problem, move to the first line and use d5d, and p to paste it. Vim gets a bad rap for being confusing, but it’s so fast to move text around once you get the hang of it.

      • Alien Nathan Edward@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        it’s basically a TUI notepad. It’s there, it does one job and that’s all there is to it

        That’s what the people who like it like about it.

    • marduk@lemmy.sdf.org
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      I like nano because it has worked any time I needed it. I don’t dislike nano because I’m not good enough at Linux to have ever run into its limitations

      • bioemerl@kbin.social
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        Vim really is an IDE, not a text editor. It’s usable as an editor but overkill.

        Nano serves a difference purpose. It’s like telling someone on a bike that a mustang is better.

        • Kogasa@programming.dev
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          Vim is absolutely not an IDE. It has no integrations with any language. It’s just a powerful text editor. You can add language plugins and configure it to be an IDE.

          • hperrin@lemmy.world
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            That’s what most IDEs are. VS Code doesn’t have any native integrations. Everything is provided by plugins. The default plugins that ship with VS Code can be disabled, and you’ll have just a powerful text editor.

            (To do this, go to Extensions tab, click the filter icon, select “Built-in”, and go down the list to disable all of them. Or just build a version with no built-in plugins.)

              • bioemerl@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                In that case every IDE is “just a text editor” because basically every IDE is built around modularity in this same way. This is just nitpicking over what is preinstalled.

                • Fushuan [he/him]@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  Eclipse, visual studio, pycharm, idea… Those are full blown IDEs. They come with all the extras. All the text editors that can become IDEs have extensions or plugins that enable what these other actual IDE do natively.

                  Nowadays using vscode to debug a running program is common, but that was something only restricted to full blown IDEs some years ago, I’d say that vscode is lightweight IDE that can be expanded, but vim is a text editor first and foremost. You can’t really debug code in vim AFAIK, the most you get is syntax highlighting, linting, automatic whitespace removal and auto formatting? Not sure about the last one.

                • Lime66@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  You cannot remove java from idea. Therefore it is not just a text editor because support for the language isn’t added through an extension

                • Kogasa@programming.dev
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                  1 year ago

                  IDEs are designed to support a software development workload. A text editor is designed to edit text files.

            • DrQuint@lemm.ee
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              Ah, so Code is the same as Vim if… I go out of my way to either disable things on one or install things on the other.

              Or… Or… Code is an IDE (that you can strip down) and Vim is a text editor (that you can strip up).

              We don’t stop calling a computer one just because it can still boot without most of its modules. The default presentation matters.

          • Bo7a@lemmy.ca
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            1 year ago

            No offense intended here - But why is this being upvoted?

            vim absolutely is an IDE if that is how you want to use it. Syntax highlighting, linter, language specific autocomplete, integrated sed/regex. And much, much more.

              • bioemerl@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                “You see here my car has positions for all the parts of a boat so it’s easily made into a boat and it’s already waterproof but it’s just a normal car”

              • naught@sh.itjust.works
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                I don’t know that’s a fair anology. Vim does what a IDE can do without almost any setup with LazyVim and Lunar Vim and a bunch other prebaked setups. Instead of writing your vscode config in JSON or using a GUI, you can use lua. It’s more like turning car into a track car or something where you’re already a mechanic

            • Kogasa@programming.dev
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              1 year ago

              Syntax highlighting, linting, and language specific autocomplete are features supported by plugins and scripts. Plain, simple vim is a powerful extensible text editor. The extensibility makes it easy to turn into an IDE.

              • Euphoma
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                1 year ago

                There’s syntax highlighting by default in vim though.

                • Kogasa@programming.dev
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                  Yeah, there is a generic syntax highlighting scheme. I had forgotten because it’s not very good for some languages, I’d replaced it with a LSP-based implementation years ago.

            • killeronthecorner@lemmy.world
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              The things you’re describing are still just text editor features. An IDE generally has specific functionality for building, testing, packaging, debugging etc. for one or more programming languages/environments.

              (Which vim can do if configured, I don’t really have an opinion about that tbh)

                • Kogasa@programming.dev
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                  1 year ago

                  I’m not a text editor. But anyway, would you call a shell script that invokes python.exe $1 a Python IDE? Why would you? Vim isn’t designed to facilitate the use of vimscript, vimscript is just an extensibility feature of Vim.

          • Frank Müller@mastodon.social
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            1 year ago

            @kogasa Hehe, shit, so long done something wrong as I use #vim as an IDE. Okay, some own helpers, some plugins, the direct integration for #golang via LSP and since some time also ChatGPT and Copilot. But hey, it’s no IDE. 🤪

        • Slotos@feddit.nl
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          1 year ago

          Nano is for those that occasionally edit text files from a terminal.

          Vim is for those who make a living out of it.

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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            There’s a guy on Youtube who does programming language tutorials/demonstrations. Like he starts out with C++ and in one hour you’re at object inheritance, crash courses I guess is the term for them.

            He did one video that was as much a Vim tutorial as a tutorial for this language. “Press 3k, then enter, then i, and type “std::out(“whatever C syntax is”)” and then hit escape and…”

            For teaching something like a little bit of Python or a little bit of Bash or whatever, I’d rather use Nano, because you can learn how to use it in seconds. Vim is an amazing tool but lord don’t try to cram a Vim tutorial into another already technical tutorial.

        • timbuck2themoon@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          If you edit files a lot vim is worth its weight in gold. Nano makes me want to kill myself as everything takes so much longer.

          Nano is perfectly sufficient for a very rare edit.

          • bioemerl@kbin.social
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            Vim absolutely chews through anything you throw at it. Lots of times we need data formated or lots of SQL queries and I’m the go to guy because I understand vim macros.

            Especially if you have any form of RSI.

            I wonder if it would be possible to make a user accessable way to expose similar power to the common user.

          • bioemerl@kbin.social
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            Not really, or that doesn’t feel right to my. Word and notepad basically still do the same thing except for that word lets you add style.

            Like a manual vs an automatic car, maybe?

            • frezik@midwest.social
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              Word is a WYSIWYG editor. We don’t talk about it much these days because it’s just how things are done, but it took a long time for the industry to come up with a way to display text on screen with rich formatting and have it come out the same way in print. There was a lot of buzz around it in the late 80s and early 90s.

              Word solves a completely different problem than an IDE. Notepad is a raw, minimal tool that could be built on for either WYSIWYG or an IDE.

        • Jordan_U
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          For the pedants, I hope y’all can at least agree that lunarvim is an IDE:

          https://www.lunarvim.org/

          (Note, a comment saying it’s a “bad IDE” doesn’t make it not an IDE)

      • uzay@infosec.pub
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        It just makes a lot of stuff way easier once you know how to use it. Switching out a word for another: two button-presses, duplicating a line: three presses, deleting 500 consecutive lines: five presses

            • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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              How do we work this? Do we alternate between trying to ruin people’s lives with elisp and chasing the perfect .vimrc or lua - config? Maybe grab some bytes from /dev/urandom and send them to the editor whose first letter comes up first? What about holidays?

        • penquin@lemm.ee
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          But you can do all that with nano and it is straight forward and you don’t need to memorize any key combinations. I mean, I get it and no judgement here. I just use nano because it’s easy and quick.

            • penquin@lemm.ee
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              I write my code in an actual IDE. And I use nano for only, like you said, config files and those little things. And I have never used emacs and I don’t even know how it looks like. I’m dead serious, I don’t even know what emacs is or what it does. lmao

              • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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                Emacs is basically a lisp interpreter packaged with a suite of “example” utilities, like a text editor. It’s one of the two historical editors used as terminal IDEs, along with vim. Emacs tends to take a more batteries, kitchen sink, web browser, games, IRC client, etc-included approach. It can seriously be closer to an OS in functionality.

          • r1veRRR@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            You can also copy paste by manually copying text by hand, would call that a valid alternative to Ctrl-C/V?