Do you agree? If not, what’s your counter arguments?
Why don’t you type the things instead of making us watch a click-bait video?
can’t put as many ads on a short list
“I’m too fucking lazy to click a thing and listen to someone. Provide me with notes on the relevant points, slave.”
@hiddengoat @original_reader @walden “I’m too fucking lazy to spend less time making something that also takes less time for my consumers to consume and uses less bandwidth and is more accessible to deaf and blind people”
0:36 Gaming.
4:38 Microsoft Office.
5:31 Photoshop.
7:15 Ecosystem of Linux.
9:39 Hardware compatibility.- Proton & Lutris
- Libreoffice & Nextcloud
- G.I.M.P, Inkscape, Krita
- It’s cooler, more secure, more private, more trusting etc.
- More compatible than Windows 11 that’s for sure
- this is 100% valid. even on wayland it’s working great.
- it took like 3 days to migrate my whole workflow to libreoffice. it’s definitely doable for 95% of ms office users but when you’re in a big company it gets tricky. formulas work a little bit different so you have to consider that. libreoffice is case sensitive, ms office is not.
- this is again mostly a compatibility with other parties issue. and from what i understand photoshop has a lot of third party addons that would definitely be cumbursome to migrate.
- i have to use windows at work and it drives me crazy. constant notifications for mundane stuff, no package manager, no sane way to keep apps up-to-date, commandline is shit.
- even freebsd was better at handling my thinkpad. i have a wifi dongle, on linux it just works, on windows i have to install an xp app to be able to use that.
Really the only thing that I miss on Linux is creative cloud stuff. Yeah, gimp and inkscape cover 80% of the functionality of PS and Illustrator right out of the gate, and I bet I could get to 90% if I sank a bunch of hours into learning the differences. Which is amazing for open source software.
But there’s a gap when you have a team of dedicated and highly paid developers and hordes of creatives testing everything out and demanding progress that’s going to be hard to overcome.
sometimes that’s right, but other times it fires back. like in autodesk software, it turns into a money making machine. because they’re the industry standard for more than a decade now, they just pump out new version every year with barely any changes and deliberately not forward compatible. so you just pay more every month, because everything is subscription based now.
That’s fair. Another example of what you describe that I’m more familiar with is Epic (medical records software). My hypothesis is that the differences that matter are:
- Cost of switching is higher and/or
- The people making the decision (business manager, hospital admin) are farther from the actual users of the software.
Could be lots of other reasons too, but these are the ones that jump out at me.
And I have a wifi dongle that works on Windows but not on Linux so… PBBBBBBBTTTTTT
Why are you trying to find opportunities on every comment to bash (no pun intended) Linux on a Linux community?
If you don’t like it then just leave.
If you want a circlejerk piss back off to reddit and get to wanking.
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Yes, I am.
It’s tolerance for willful stupidity that I lack.
Dude. Calm down. I’m literally just asking a question and giving you an answer based on the way you’re talking about Linux.
No, you’re literally just being an elitist asshole that wants to swim in a sea of your own fartwater, free from anyone telling you that your shit stinks. This sort of attitude is the very reason Linux is still half-assed garbage for anything other than the most basic computing tasks or dedicated environments where a staff of people is paid to manhandle it.
If you don’t like reality, you fucking leave. Ketamine might help.
- Not even close, half my shit doesn’t work.
- If you think either are replacements for Office, you’ve never actually had to use Office for work.
- GIMP sucks and has nowhere near the feature set. Good luck working in CMYK.
- None of this matters.
- Tell that to wifi cards, audio interfaces, instruments, or other hardware that some rando hasn’t written a half-assed driver for.
- ProtonDB says that my personal library in steam with over 800 games only has 1% games which don’t work, and a total of 7% that doesn’t just run when you click play. This means that the most pessimistic view of my library is that 93% of the games work, that’s probably more than on windows 11 for what I heard about compatibility for old games. I highly doubt your library is even remotely close to the 50% incompatibility you’re claiming.
- They are. I do. If you need something in the level of complexity that “only” Microsoft office can provide, you shouldn’t be using excel to begin with, a simple script with a database will be a lot more powerful and fast.
- GIMP not supporting CMYK natively is getting quite ridiculous. However as far as I remember there have been plugins for it since forever, plus this is only important for printed jobs, anything digital doesn’t need CMYK. Also depending on what you’re trying to do Krita might be a better option.
- If that doesn’t matter then what does?
- All of the ones I have tried work out of the box, also the ones that work is only so because windows has more users so companies bend over backwards to write drivers for it, but whenever companies give the same amount of treatment to both Windows and Linux the compatibility is always better on Linux, e.g. PlayStation controllers are a pain to get working on windows but work out of the box on Linux.
- What ProtonDB says and what reality is differ quite a lot.
- “Well you shouldn’t do that because I said so.” Irrelevant response.
- Yes, there are numerous jank plugins that all half-work. CMYK support is only the tip of the iceberg and it’s enough to exclude GIMP from entire industries. I do not know why people keep mentioning Krita in the same breath as GIMP, given that it’s fully cross-platform and is specifically geared towards illustration. I can use it on Windows or Mac just as easy as Linux. That’s not a selling point for Linux, it’s an example of why Linux isn’t really needed in a given area.
- I’m sorry, I thought we were talking about the average user here. That’s what people keep telling me in other responses. Since when did the command line matter to average users?
- Well, you know, maybe if Windows was more popular Sony would make a driver for it. This excuse works for hardware that doesn’t work in Linux, so same should apply there.
What games do you play so that nothing works? The only problems I had in over half a year with Linux and pretty much daily gaming are cyberpunk 2.0 (which is nvidias fault and already a lot better with 2.01) and the Xbox service in aoe2. Everything else works perfectly normal, from DOS games like Commander Keen and fate of Atlantis to MMOs like LOTRO and ESO to triple A games like Witcher 3 and Dark Souls 3. They all work perfectly fine and in >90% of cases out of the box, only sometimes do they need minor adjustments like a certain proton version or commands
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Playstation also doesn’t support PC or Xbox games. It’s pretty clear what IS supported and its like 60% of steam games for PC along with a massive library of classic games via emulation. Excuse me while I switch between playing a switch game and a windows game and take a break to play a native game.
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Most of what people do “for work” with office is crap out a presentation, word processor doc, or spreadsheet which all work fine in Libre Office. In fact for a lot of users the triviality of shared editing of google docs actually trumps every other feature that office has.
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Most people’s usage of an image editor is resizing and cropping. Only a tiny minority actually need a professional image editor like most people don’t need a backhoe
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Good hardware support is having good hardware to buy in every category not supporting literally every piece of hardware in existence. Smart people who use Linux buy Linux friendly hardware.
- K. Have fun.
- Yes, LibreOffice works fine. Now save that document and send it over to the attorney for approval. Wait for the email telling you it’s broken and shit because they’re using Office and LibreOffice still has problems export to different file formats. Interoperability is the issue. Google Docs is not an answer for anything.
- So between this and the previous one you’re basically saying that advanced USERS need not apply to Linux, right?
- Then why the fuck is every dick with an ISO telling me that Linux can be installed on any old hardware I have laying around?
This is the problem with Linux in general. Such a huge portion of the user base are elitist pricks. “Well just buy the RIGHT hardware.” Nah mate, I can’t be arsed to buy a new motherboard with a wifi chip that’s supported by this OS. I’ve already bought the audio interface. That scanner was a gift. The printer was a deal. It goes on.
Compatibility with old hardware and hardware support in general is fairly good and traditionally Linux has been a lightweight solution to re-use hardware that otherwise might end up as e-waste. This doesn’t mean it supports everything nor does it mean continuing to buy random windows hardware and hope is a reasonable strategy nor is it a failure of the overall ecosystem if the hardware you yourself purchased isn’t supported.
For instance when I discovered linux back in 2003 I tried Linux on my existing hardware it happily worked. Since I liked how it worked so my next computer was purchased with Linux in mind. If that machine hadn’t worked well but I liked how the software worked I would have done the same thing.
Since people with working computers don’t removed much forums are full of people at Linux Computer 1 removed about how it doesn’t work as if not supporting that singular machine as if continuing to use Linux would require them to continually purchase random hardware based on what was on sale at walmart that week and rolling the dice
It’s funny you mention printers. Printers that are a “deal” usually aren’t. More often than not they are of poor quality with ridiculous printing costs. 80 dollars now 800 dollars of the next 5 years before it breaks down.
Instead for a few dollars more I got a laser with great per unit costs good reliability and I ensured compatibility through the magical and technical art of googling the model number and the word Linux. It took longer to remove the packaging than configuration and it works great but then it wasn’t like I picked it out by 1 factor I had several parameters to satisfy so I narrowed down the entire range of options in 15 minutes of research for a device I’ll probably be using for 10 years.
Laser/double sided printing/reasonable speed/scanner/linux support/affordable toner/ ethernet support/good resolution/price range.
Good hardware support doesn’t mean every cheap piece of shit you find in the reject pile in walmart will work perfectly because the support of free labor to build that support isn’t infinite. F
Lastly making memes with photoshop doesn’t make one an “advanced” user and most “advanced” usage doesn’t require photoshop specifically.
If you’re too fucking stupid to know who the actual users of Photoshop are and why moving to Linux doesn’t work for them, brother, you can fuck off.
yes the point is that this is constantly brought up as if Photoshop was a staple of everyday computer use that was a vital missing piece of making Linux “ready for the desktop” instead of a professional tool by its nature primarily used by a minority. Of course if you are an artist and use windows/mac software to make money you probably shouldn’t bother with Linux but random bob kid who uses pirated photoshop to make memes can probably learn to make memes with gimp considering one can copy crop and put text on images fairly easy.
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-Fuck you -Fuck you -Fuck you -Fuck you -Fuck you -Fuck you
“Fuck you” instead of anything useful or meaningful. Like trying to get help on a Linux forum.
You sound like someone who can’t figure out their own problems and feel the need to attack the community because you don’t understand.
You sound like the kind of imbecile that thinks “it’s open source, fix it yourself!” is a valid response to anything.
😂
The first three boil down to, “If software that you need/want only develops for a specific OS, use that OS.”
It’s time we stop blaming linux for vendor choices.
Gaming: Only if you’re playing one of the VERY few games that doesn’t run in Linux yet, and that number continues to drop rapidly. There’s plenty of tools out there to make games work well in Linux.
Office: For basic things, there’s a million and one office suites that work in Linux and you can even use Office 365 Online if you really need that Microsoft Office experience/compatibility. This is only valid if you or your company need specific add-ons that don’t have any equivalent in other office suites. My own employer uses these, so in that instance, yes, I do need MS Office for those. But from what I know, still not an entirely common thing, and you can still get by with Linux compatible office suites for most things.
Photoshop: I don’t work with images, but from what I understand this one has some validity, comparing the tools available in Photoshop vs the GIMP or other drawing tools. But that’s just if you’re doing some really advanced image editing.
Ecosystem: if this is just referring to the fact that most people don’t use Linux, there are plenty of FOSS programs that work in both Windows and Linux and very few common file types that aren’t mutually compatible.
Hardware: another instance that has greatly improved over time, and there hasn’t been anything in years that I haven’t had “just work” by plugging it in. If the proprietary drivers don’t install, there’s probably an open source driver out there to get your hardware running. Will admit that in some instances features may be more limited, depending on what the drivers will be able to do, but as I mentioned that’s really getting better almost daily.
Out of this list, Photoshop is really the only main thing blocking people, unless they play anticheat-ridden games the likes of Destiny 2, who are outright linux-hostile.
You don’t have to be doing advanced work to notice the difference between GIMP and Photoshop. Working in GIMP is painful. Working in Photoshop is also painful, but at least you know your files will work with everyone else.
Try some audio hardware. Linux is still a fucking wasteland when it comes to that.
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Random? Small? Niche? Nah, just an entire global professional industry and hundreds of millions of hobbyists across every walk of life around the world. Nothing important there.
Here’s a 19 minute video trying to explain the brainfuck of stupid that is the Linux sound landscape: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxEXMHcwtlI
Is that the sound of goalposts being moved in the background?
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@hiddengoat @original_reader @LastYearsPumpkin @Grangle1 @Xatolos yikes. Troll much?
Pipewire fixes a lot of issues and is a huge improvement. The best part of OSS and Linux is its the upstart, the underdog, the do-it-for-the-love, the chronically underfunded, hacker os. You’ll find things not as polished as the proprietary alternatives but that’s okay. There’s far more to enjoy: auditable code, open to contributions, infinitely customizable
Oh honey, you’ll know when I’m trolling.
Pipewire sucks less. It still does not make hardware work properly.
I have no use for underdogs when it comes to getting shit done. Being less polished is not okay when it comes to getting shit done. I do not give a shit about auditing code when what I want to do is record a song. I do not give a shit about contributing code to literally everything I ever open because precious few pieces of software are actually feature-complete. Trying to push “it’s half-assed and broken” as a positive is a new level of Linux evangelist gaslighting I haven’t seen and I’ve been around for a whiiiiiiile.
“Sure, only of your hardware works and the half that does has latency issues or can’t communicate with more than one piece of software and also the software can’t really communicate with itself very well BUT AT LEAST WE HAVE THEMES!”
I really REALLY would like Linux to suck less ass at audio but more than two decades of trying to get any developers to listen to someone that actively makes music rather than software has proven completely fruitless. At a certain point you realize that devs are there to wank their egos, not produce usable software. At that point you shrug and buy a Mac. Then you plug in almost any piece of musical gear made in the past four decades and holy shit it actually works because MacOS has one sound system that everyone uses because it isn’t shit.
But yeah, somehow having three or four incompatible systems is totally better…
Well good thing it’s all open source, feel free to get in there and fix your problems with your audio equipment. Something makes me think you’d rather complain about it on the internet than fix anything though.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=HxEXMHcwtlI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
A fraction of 1% of Windows users use Photoshop. 99.9% of users just crop and resize
Which is utterly fucking irrelevant to the conversation.
Gaming… yeah it’s not like there’s a dedicated portable hardware device for gaming that runs on Linux by default.
MS Office, well it’s literally a Microsoft product so yeah, though O365 does work.
Photoshop I haven’t tried in years to run on Linux but I wish haven’t bothered with Photoshop in years period so…
He does counter with Gimp tbf.
Everyone should use Linux, it’s just whether or not they can use Linux.
Exactly. I installed Pop OS and I fucking loved it!
…Up to the point where playing games without Steam and being able to stably & reliably access my NAS through the local network is at best a pain in the ass to achieve let alone maintain, if not impossible.
(And yes I did use Lutris for the former. Couldn’t even fucking get Dragon Age: Origins up and running.)
I still really miss Linux but if it’s not gonna work for the two things I use a PC for the most, then hey what can a girl do? Lol.
I am sorry but wut? https://www.protondb.com/app/47810 Also try to run it using project port proton https://github.com/Castro-Fidel/PortWINE About NAS need more info about ur configuration.
I am sorry but wut? https://www.protondb.com/app/47810
My reaction exactly (pretty much) except yeah it wouldn’t even launch. It was the weirdest fucking thing ever. Maybe it was because I wasn’t installing it through Steam. I was running the GOG release and installing it through Lutris.
Also try to run it using project port proton https://github.com/Castro-Fidel/PortWINE
I uh…already reinstalled Windows… ^^"
About NAS need more info about ur configuration.
I can do that!
The model is QNAP TS-453D, and all I wanted to do was access it via the file manager via the local network. Just like I would in Windows by going to Network in the sidebar.
The NAS thing is really weird, because that shit’s what linux is really good at. Hell, your NAS probably has linux runningon it.
Unfortunately, that info is not enough to help you troubleshoot the problem.
The NAS thing is really weird, because that shit’s what linux is really good at. Hell, your NAS probably has linux runningon it.
Kind of my thoughts exactly.
Unfortunately, that info is not enough to help you troubleshoot the problem.
What else do you need?
Gog repacks usually work better than original games. ,what’s ur videocard? Usually game not start in case if driver not installed or it’s installed but it’s too new for ur videocard it’s related to proprietary driver of nvidia.
Nvidia RTX 2060.
I also have a QNAP and I have no problem mounting the SMB shares into a folder in the filesystem. If you ever want to try again, feel free to touch base with me and I’ll share my config.
Thanks! I’ll keep that in mind!
That being said, why would you have to use SMB. I thought that was only for when a machine you need to access through the local network is a Windows machine.
Isn’t QNAP, well, not?
I do use SMB as my network has a mix of Linux and Windows machines, so it’s easier for me to just admin one single protocol, and SMB works pretty well with both, after a little fine-tuning.
tl;dw: “If it does not deliver the exact same experience as Windows = don’t bother.”
Yeah…no.
t. Have 0 issues with the mentioned “issues” in the video. I use arch btw. :^)
YMMV
If you have an old nvidia card, you’re going to have issues with some games. BF4 for example, no matter what you do you will have lag and stutter
There’s wayland and lack of support for nvidia cards, and major distros and GUI’s dropping x11 in favour of wayland (regardless of whose fault it is or if it’s good or bad in grand scheme of things, whoever has an nvidia GPU is going to be forced to use other distros or windows)
And then the whole proton and wine stuff… I just installed CoD 2 and had to fetch some commands in order for it to run, else it crashed after playing the first cut scene. And then there are other games, like Divinity dragon commander, that I couldn’t figure how to get it to run. Tried several proton versions, none of them launched the game. My fault or ignorance? Perhaps, but on windows it would run first try.
- I ran a GTX 550ti and everything ran very well for the most part (card was pretty old so prefomance on new games was bad)
- gnome is the only one fully dropping x11 as far as I know
- Nvidia cards do work on linux, sure they may be a bit more configuring to do compared to a AMD card if it is new, bit it still works.
- Lutris? GOG? Steam? Is using the command line really a nuisance for you?
- The fact that you did not figure out how to run something, does not mean that it does not run on Linux
- Ofc Windows would run it first try, the game is made for it, not like Limix which needs to use Wine and gain more performance in some games even tho its not running on its native platform (Windows).
1 - YMMV, as I mentioned
2- as a consequence, popular distros like Ubuntu and Fedora too. I expect other GUI’s and therefore distros to follow
3- Didn’t mean to imply they don’t, what I meant is that they have issues and will make users jump to other ships.
4, 5 and 6, Lutris and later Steam itself when I was running out of ideas, and yes it does run on Linux as long you can figure out the correct proton/wine version or buy the game from Steam. Point here was that gaming on Linux can be convenient or very annoying, depending on the games you want to play. YMMV
Gnome and Fedora the literal worst desktop and a perpetually broken distro that is a minority of a minority are even talking about actually dropping support for X11. As much as they might hate it X11 will be an option for the next decade
I started my gaming experience (PC) with Linux. So I disagree.
Without knowing what you play, how many games would you say are as easy to install as under Windows and how many needed some additional encouragement?
Thanks for asking.
I am a very casual gamer, and at the beginning I might have struggled a bit with all the mechanics of Proton, Lutris etc etc.
When I look for games I usually double check on ProtonDB, if there is any fix to be applied. For this reason, I can say 95% of MY games are just install and play.
The only game I had a problem with was Skyrim, which needed a FPS limiter to avoid glitching at the beginning.
Skyrim, which needed a FPS limiter to avoid glitching at the beginning.
And the opening of Skyrim has been known to glitch out on Windows, too.
Nowadays, with Steam, most games are just install-and-play. For non-Steam games, Lutris does a good job of handling the tedium, though it is an extra step vs installing on Windows. Other marketplaces/launchers are generally covered by some third-party alternative that has most of the relevant functionality.
So far, I haven’t had any issues with any purchased games under Linux. If it doesn’t run as-is after installing, it’s just been a question of choosing Proton in a drop-down menu. I’ve been Linux-only for about two years now, and gaming used to be the only thing that kept me locked into Windows. That said, there are games that won’t run at all under Linux, often due to anti-cheat software.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/06cKL5DQ5CY?feature=shared
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Let me guess: Adobe, Microsoft Office, “gaming”, It’s weird/different, I don’t like it.
I am not going to watch this video.
These videos exist for monetization purposes.
Does anyone know if one where to view videos through Piped, NewPipe, FreeTube, etc the view would count towards engagement?
Right tool for the job. I was once a a nix fanboy in the beginning. Now, I don’t really care. If I legitimately think it suits a particular issue or use-case I’ll suggest it. But I also work for an MSP that, well, focuses on a lot of Microsoft services.
There are just things each environment has pros and cons for.
The con of one of then being “is a rootkit”
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