So while reading conversations between burgerlanders I’ve repeatedly stumbled upon a very specific set of bizarre and nonsensical set phrases (memes?):

  • The US is a republic, not a democracy
  • The US is a democracy, not a republic
  • Democrats want a democracy, Republicans want a republic
  • The US is neither a republic nor a democracy

What the fuck? I can’t even begin to untangle how wrong and nonsensical these phrases are, or what the thought process is to oppose these two words as if they’re mutually exclusive. Yes, yes, I know the US is not democratic from the perspective of us leftists, but from a neutral/liberal standpoint, well, it is a kind of bourgeois democracy, they present themselves as the gold standard for democracy, and one of their most famous (and ironic) imperial mottos that both parties absolutely love is “freedom and democracy”. Also, of course the US is a republic, what else would they be? A kingdom? Have they looked at pretty much every other country in the world with “Republic” in the name? Are none of them democracies? Not even the ones in The West™? The parties’ names are, as I take it, just historic names that don’t really say anything about political lines nowadays.

I know the US educational system sucks and that the average American is really politically ignorant, but where does this specific meme come from, and why is it so common? I don’t know why, but of all things burgerland, this one particularly bugs me a lot. Help me, comrades.

  • carpe_modo@lemmygrad.ml
    16·
    2 years ago

    This is largely because of liberals co-opting and twisting language from both parties. If you talk to conservatives here, for example, they legitimately do not know that they’re just conservative liberals. They think conservative is an entirely different ideology. Because they’ve been bombarded with these types of talking points constantly.

    With a lack of proper education and this going on all the time, most people really don’t understand different forms of governance or ideology. Even many educated people end up getting the meanings of these terms confused just because they’re always used in a nonsensical manner.

    • MexicanCCPBot@lemmygrad.mlOP
      8·
      2 years ago

      This is what makes the most sense to me. They do say that a feature of fascist societies is an impoverished language, and there’s a very clear effort of the US establishment to misuse as many political terms as possible and conflate things that don’t have anything to do with each other when speaking in public. Because as we know, internal CIA documents and such do use political terms correctly and very precisely. Well-defined words help us understand and visualize the world around us, and without them, it becomes a lot more difficult to see reality clearly. By confusing the average person about the meaning of something as simple as “democracy”, well, it’s pretty obvious what happens.

  • anothertranscomrade
    11·
    2 years ago

    well, americans are kinda stupid.

    the only two parties in america are the democratic party and the republican party (the others may as well not exist) and since their platforms are essentially based on being polar opposites to each other, the less intelligent americans (most of them) assume their labels are polar opposites too.

    • GloriousDoubleK@lemmygrad.ml
      9·
      2 years ago

      Americans are just lying back and forth to each other. Their whole thing is to decieve the other into doing what the other wants. Mix that with political illiteracy and you just … 🤷‍♂️ end up with progressives giving billions to neonazis.

      Shit. I meant for this to be a reply to the thread. Damnit.

  • whoami@lemmygrad.ml
    6·
    2 years ago

    it’s part of the “culture wars.” More conservative types believe that the founding fathers wanted a “republic” (i.e a limited democracy) rather than a more populist democracy, the latter being something supported by US liberals. Both sides will argue about the intent of the founding fathers, whether or not the constitution is a “living document” etc. It’s basically a great way for everyone to get worked up while missing the fucking point, which is how the US functions.

    What’s hilarious to me is that the etymology of republic (latin, public affair) and democracy (ancient greek, popular government, demos-common people) are similar enough that arguing over it is ridiculous

  • Max@lemmygrad.ml
    5·
    2 years ago

    It was the line of choice for people who support the US electoral college system because it allows for republican presidential candidates who receives millions of votes less than their opponent to win national elections. The idea being that honoring the popular vote would be indicative of a democracy and not a republic. Of note that the founding fathers used the terms democracy and republic interchangeably, as was common at the time. But that’s the extent of how deep it goes. It’s simply a convenient gotcha statement for a certain type of ignorant reactionary.

    • MexicanCCPBot@lemmygrad.mlOP
      3·
      2 years ago

      I get what you’re trying to say, but it’s still so nonsensical to me that my brain just doesn’t accept it as an explanation. It’s like saying “I’m a human, not an individual”. Thanks though.

      And it’s especially stupid because then you have the same Republicans using “democracy” as their main talking point for imperialist intervention.

      • Max@lemmygrad.ml
        2·
        2 years ago

        It’s certainly a silly thing for someone to say coming from the perspective of a person with an understanding of political history and basic terminology, but there’s no coherent political thinking to be found here. People do not read basic civics documents, let alone have any sort of rational grounding for their political decisions. The gotcha statement is devoid of meaning but it derails any conversation about how republicans consistently receive fewer votes in presidential elections, which makes them feel bad.