riccardo
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41Y

The Farm System Reform Act, which Booker originally proposed at the end of 2019, was, he says, meant to help support smaller farms which have suffered as a result of giant facilities run by major corporations which he believes have ‘run roughshod over the marketplace’.

This mainly sounds like a pack of measures solely aimed at fixing unbalanced market competition. Doesn’t sound like anything actually meant to discourage meat consumption for health/moral/environmental purposes :( overall by 2040 these reforms might also have a positive outcome also for vegans and for the environment (haven’t delve in it and that’s the only article I’ve read), though it’s sad that when there’s a bill that tries to reform factory farming, it’s because we need to fix libertarianism allowing big corps to take over small businesses too easily

@michel
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41Y

Indeed. Disclaimer: I’m not (yet?) a vegan, though I am aiming to reduce my meat consumption gradually for moral/environmental reasons.

The right-libertarian everyone-for-themselves selfishness, and unregulated capitalism (some would argue, capitalism itself by its very nature) are detrimental to not just animal life (whether cattle or wild) but also to individuals and small businesses, so anything that begins to tackle it is good news. I just hope it’s not too late.

@k_o_t
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1Y

unregulated capitalism (some would argue, capitalism itself by its very nature) are detrimental to not just animal life

i really don’t want to get into political debate, just asking, could you elaborate?

socialist countries didn’t have any ubiquitous plant-based diet afaik, even the contrary i would say, and exploited natural resources to great extends thus harming both domesticated and wild animals

is it possible that maybe non-vegans use capitalism as an excuse to not change their diet and blame it on the political system rather than their own inability and unwillingness to change their lifestyle?

(the latter applies to domesticated animals bred to be eaten, and less so to wild animals)

(i do agree with the point about harming wild animals because of lack of regulations tho)

@michel
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11Y

Sure, that’s a valid question, and I also hope we can discuss this without making it a political debate.

Soviet-style command economies have certainly been disastrous for the environment; democratic socialist and social democratic parties in the West have had a better track record.

I’m personally interested in eco-socialism myself; the Green New Deal is a good example of balancing environmental and social justice needs, while the yellow vests movement, IMHO, partly highlights what happens when politicians try to impose ostensibly environmental tax increases at the expense of the average person.

I wasn’t trying to use capitalism as an excuse for not becoming vegan – I can’t speak for other non-vegans so I don’t know if others do make this excuse, and I apologize if I give that impression, I just mean I see an alignment between trying to be more ethical in my meat consumption and trying to reform the system. Both are necessary and individual behavior changes alone will not be enough, in my opinion.

This IQ2 debate appearance by George Monbiot makes the point on how capitalist economic growth won’t bring prosperity for all without ruining the environment better than I can express myself.

@k_o_t
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11Y

It is simply a matter of priorities to me. We should logically pursue the easiest changes that are going to have the most impact the most.

Committing to veganism is the single biggest step one can make to help the environment and animals. It’s just weird to me how people try or advocate to try to make political reforms before making a very simple change in their own diet.

Sure, political systems around the world certainly need some reform to reduce their impacts on the environment, however, I struggle to see how people who refuse to make basic changes in their diet are going to be able to overthrow a political system or, more realistically, make significant reforms and regulations to help the environment.

@gottfried
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1Y

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@michel
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11Y

Properly-regulated capitalism can be good for small businesses, certainly (and also for their employees) - I am quite fond of Germany’s social market economy.

I call the dominant form of libertarianism “right-libertarian” since there is a historical left libertarianism (a.k.a. anarchism, but that term has too many other connotations these days). As you pointed out it leads to really nasty labor conditions – but it’s also not great at preserving competitive markets either, especially in market sectors conducive to natural monopolies (e.g. look at broadband Internet access in the US, or social media).

Tire
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1Y

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