Ignore the experts who were saying for years that viral spillover was inevitable if we continue deforestation. It must be the scheming orientals.
No one disputes that this could be a transcendence issue, but China’s continuous blocking any efforts that are not controlled by them makes any investigation suspect. The Chinese should have already hosted an investigation. This will have been presented to the initial who investigation. Any further investigations will have zero credibility.
Any attempt to force China to accept inspectors from the Euro-centric world already has zero credibility given the number of times the Euro-centric world has used this exact ruse as a pretext for espionage and war propaganda
There are not supposed to be military establishments in the area. There were European scientist in the Wuhan facility before covid was active. This adds to the conspiracy theories. It may very well be that the origins came from the caves, but China does not help anyone in dissuading the narrative.
China is under no obligation to dissuade the Euro-centric world from a conspiracy theory narrative, and it has been moving itself into that posture for some time now. The US and Europe have been rattling sabres for years now, and that’s well after a full century of humiliating China. If the West wants China to respond to their spurious conspiracy claims, they’re going to have make a lot more effort to show good faith. As it stands now, if I were Chinese, I wouldn’t trust the West within 100 miles of China.
China is under no obligation to dissuade the Euro-centric world from a conspiracy theory narrative
We have just had a world pandemic. Common sense states that we should be looking into that.
after a full century of humiliating China.
Humiliating China in what way?
Humiliating China in what way?
If this is a good faith question, I highly recommend looking into modern Chinese history, starting with the 1800s. Europe brought China to its knees. Massive EuroAmerican fortunes were amassed through getting 40% of Chinese people addicted to opium, Forbes among them. The Chinese attempt to protect their people by outlawing opium was met with orientalism by the merchants who convinced the British navy to attack China and force it to allow the drug trade. The Opium Wars is how Britain ended up occupying Hong Kong and how Europeans were immune to Chinese law in all the major port cities.
When the PLA joined with the KMT to fight off the Japanese, the KMT then turned on the PLA and massacred as many as they could. The PLA eventually won the hearts and minds of the Chinese people and through a people’s war and through conversion of thousands of KMT soldiers to the PLA defeated the KMT who ran away to Taiwan. The British then stepped in and prevented the PLA from continuing to pursue the KMT because the British wanted the KMT to be their puppet regime. And that’s how Taiwan got into the mess it’s in.
The West spent a century dominating China, eventually even imposing tarrifs on behalf of China on goods that passsed through China, but all the tarrifs were collected by the Europeans! China finally stood up in 1949, but it has not finished pushing European influence out of its region. So the idea that the WHO should be trusted to be impartial when literally everything the West has done is weaponized against its enemies is laughable.
I am not going to listen to arguments based on events from 200 years ago. My family were being starved in Ireland back then.
China was a closed nation for a very long time. Any developments in China are down to China themselves. Do you even know the term of the Cold War?
There were no friendly arrangements between the west and China until very recent. The hand of friendship has been extended due to the collapse of Russia and the west recognising the futility of being aggressive for the sake of being aggressive. China also opened it borders, something unthinkable before the USSR collapsed. Since the cooling of relations between the west and China, China has abused that hand of friendship in many areas. Is it any wonder that hostilities are building up again?
it’s a thing and kind of rough
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation
Common sense would dictate that we look into the cause of the pandemic. But I totally get the fear of the pointless propaganda war that would have probably come out of it.
It’s beyond belief at this point how much the western press will bend any story about China into China bad.
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They think conspiracy theories are just something Qanon does
Unironic lab leak theory
This, except the lab in question is Fort Detrick.
You’re the one generalizing everyone as “libs”
I guarantee that you would be cooking up these conspiracy theories regardless of any investigations that China had allowed. They could have shipped every citizen of Wuhan straight to your house so you could personally interview them and it still wouldn’t be enough.
I guarantee that you are just another bot set up to deflect any negative comments about China regardless of how credible they seem.
Regardless of how credible they seem
Where’s the credibility? All you do is call people bots because you can’t handle being disagreed with. Where’s your factual basis for your claims? Where’s your trustworthy sources and references? You have nothing except childish racism and insults
They don’t have any factual basis. They’re an incredibly bitter small minded racist. They’ve been posting the same shit on almost every thread they’re in. It’s really sad to to see. As much as we teach our children about tolerance and acceptance you still get people like this with their warped views. They’re too far down the rabbit hole of racism to notice so will just lash out at anyone by calling them a bot. It’s pathetic.
:yea: what’s really sad is that it seems like they think they’re in some sort of brave fight against evil Chinese propaganda, which there’s apparently dedicated a lot of resources to spread on a niche webforum
O er, the racism card again.
You could just stop being racist. It’s really easy not to get called a racist actually. I do it all the time. I don’t get called a racist daily.
You can’t just assume someone is racist because they disagree with you. It’s like calling you antisemitic for criticizing Israel. They brought up that China shouldn’t have blocked initial investigations and instead of replying with any facts yourself, you immediately jumped to assuming they’re racist and how they would’ve behaved if they hadn’t.
The Chinese should have already hosted an investigation.
That wording totally doesn’t sound racist.
Something happens in Kenya
The Blacks should have already hosted an investigation.
Removed by mod
Everyone that disagrees with the diet-racist liberal is a Chinese/Russian bot, a bedtime story for diet-racist liberals.
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I am in favor of a joint multilateral investigation into Ft Dietrick
What ever happened to the mysterious Vaping disease in USA in 2019? Its like covid happened and then vape disease disappeared. Funny how people were dying of vape disease and Unknown respiratory disease was destroying Eldercare facilities in USA way before Covid was ever discovered in China but nobody is looking into those deaths or their origins.
Unknown respiratory disease was destroying Eldercare facilities in USA way before Covid was ever discovered in China but nobody is looking into those deaths or their origins.
Of course they investigated it and the article you posted confirms that.
And this one does too: https://apnews.com/a7320c946aba47f494dc9a2f649bfad3
The Fairfax County Health Department put out a release on saying that they are investigating, one day before your article was posted.
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/health/outbreak-investigation-assisted-living-facility-springfield
Update: July 29, 2019
No new cases of illness have occurred in Heatherwood since July 15, 2019. Results of earlier testing submitted to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicated rhinovirus, a virus that causes the common cold. The facility continues normal operations.
And about EVALI (“vaping disease”)
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/severe-lung-disease/faq/index.html The CDC stopped reporting cases because there weren’t many, but some states continued and EVALI can be troublesome since the symptoms are similar to COVID. It’s suspected that EVALI is/was caused by vitamin E acetate, but there isn’t enough evidence to know for sure.
https://www.rsna.org/news/2022/march/EVALI-Diagnosis
Also the COVID-19 outbreak was WAY bigger in scale so of course it’s more interesting.
TL:DR: Both outbreaks were investigated.
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/health/outbreak-investigation-assisted-living-facility-springfield
Despite extensive testing of multiple specimens, no specific pathogen was identified as the cause of the outbreak
So it could have been covid or a precursor.
https://www.rsna.org/news/2022/march/EVALI-Diagnosis
“both EVALI and COVID-19 can manifest with similar clinical and imaging findings”
They literally just got a bunch of people who got sick asked if they vaped and decided it was vaping that got them sick after ruling out a few other possibilities. A percentage of the tiny sample showed no vitamin e acetate so that can’t be the cause.
Vape usage hasn’t slowed down yet all but EVALI disappeared? That’s like if everyone kept using asbestos but asbestosis just disappeared. Occam’s razor says EVALI was Covid before they knew what covid was.
So it could have been covid or a precursor.
There is nothing that is indicating that. The evidence that we do have is that the “several specimens were positive for rhinovirus, the cause of the common cold.”.
If it really were COVID (which btw makes no sense since the outbreak ended very quickly and the amount of sick people was typical for the time of year), wouldn’t the testing had discovered that the virus is very similar to SARS-CoV-1 like they did with SARS-CoV-2?
A percentage of the tiny sample showed no vitamin e acetate so that can’t be the cause.
We don’t know for sure and a tiny percentage doesn’t necessarily di
Vape usage hasn’t slowed down yet all but EVALI disappeared? That’s like if everyone kept using asbestos but asbestosis just disappeared. Occam’s razor says EVALI was Covid before they knew what covid was.
As the article states, EVALI didn’t disappear just because of COVID.
While there has been a noticeable decrease in EVALI cases since 2020 that is likely due to the COVID-19 pandemic, which has closed schools and limited social activities limited, the illness has not gone away. Furthermore, because EVALI is no longer being officially tracked, it is difficult to know whether cases are increasing.
“EVALI has by no means disappeared,” Dr. Kligerman said. “We continue to see numerous cases, even during the pandemic, many of which are initially misdiagnosed as COVID-19.”
One fact which should make it very clear that’s not COVID is that COVID is caused by a virus. And if it were COVID it would have spread and killed way more people, you know one of the famous traits of COVID.
Even if you believe strongly that it’s still COVID, don’t make up crap about how they didn’t investigate when they absolutely did, in the case of EVALI still do.
There is nothing that is indicating that. The evidence that we do have is that the “several specimens were positive for rhinovirus, the cause of the common cold.”.
Did you not read? its in the article you linked. No pathogen identified. Some of them may have had Rhinovirus too but obviously that was ruled out or they wouldn’t have said “Despite extensive testing of multiple specimens, no specific pathogen was identified as the cause of the outbreak”
While there has been a noticeable decrease in EVALI cases since 2020 that is likely due to the COVID-19 pandemic, which has closed schools and limited social activities limited, the illness has not gone away.
Why would closing schools have stopped a non communicable disease caused by a hobby? That is stupid. Furthermore Schools have been reopened for a long time.
One fact which should make it very clear that’s not COVID is that COVID is caused by a virus. And if it were COVID it would have spread and killed way more people, you know one of the famous traits of COVID.
Maybe it was just not as deadly or communicable at that point? Covid mutates you know. If it were a precursor kids sharing vape pens it would make transmission far easier. If there is any chance this was covid why is there no investigation into the origins of covid in USA?
You know the Spanish flu didn’t originate in Spain? Its just the first place where they identified that it was a new disease. Why do they keep pushing for China to be investigated when it could have come from anywhere and just been identified first in China?
Did you not read? its in the article you linked. No pathogen identified. Some of them may have had Rhinovirus too but obviously that was ruled out or they wouldn’t have said “Despite extensive testing of multiple specimens, no specific pathogen was identified as the cause of the outbreak”
Again, if they tested the patients in July 2019 they would have noticed that the virus was very similar to SARS -CoV-1, if it were COVID. They didn’t find anything though. The scientists belive it was the common cold and the scientists says that the amount of sick people was not unusual for that time of the year.
Why would closing schools have stopped a non communicable disease caused by a hobby? That is stupid. Furthermore Schools have been reopened for a long time.
Do you have a hard time reading? It says “the illness has not gone away”. Also, smoking is something that’s often done in groups, so it isn’t unusual that it were to reduce if social activities stopped. Not sure why you are denying it, it did reduce the cases. I have much more trust in scientists that actually know stuff about this and have actually investigated it, than I do for random sceptics on the internet.
Maybe it was just not as deadly or communicable at that point? Covid mutates you know. If it were a precursor kids sharing vape pens it would make transmission far easier. If there is any chance this was covid why is there no investigation into the origins of covid in USA?
Yes but it ain’t gonna mutate from a non virus to a virus. It makes no sense to investigate it further since there is absolutely no evidence that it’s COVID. It’s just wild speculation. If the only “evidence” you have is “but what if”, then you should really reconsider.
Has anyone with any credibility suggested that the virus started outside China?
Why do they keep pushing for China to be investigated when it could have come from anywhere and just been identified first in China? M
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Whether it naturally sprang from animals at a Chinese wet market or was a deliberately engineered virus that leaked from a lab remains to this day a question shrouded in mystery, providing fertile ground for conspiracy theories.
In a surprise move, the new chief scientist at the World Health Organization backed a fact-finding mission to China despite his own doubts that COVID-19 escaped from an institute for virology in Wuhan.
In the FT interview, Farrar said he would be in favor of a fresh investigation into the origin of a microscopic virus that wreaked untold economic damage, brought the health system to the brink of collapse, and cost millions of lives around the world.
The WHO previously dispatched a team to investigate the origins, but the results published in early 2021 were tainted in the eyes of many as Beijing insisted in a joint effort that undermined confidence.
The study only served to confirm criticisms repeatedly leveled at the United Nations public health body and its top official, Tedros Ghebreyesus, that it bent over backwards to accommodate the Chinese regime.
In testimony presented before Congress last month, the lead author on a controversial “proximal origin” study rejected allegations from Republican lawmakers that he was unduly influenced by either Fauci or Farrar, then still the director of Wellcome Trust.
The original article contains 582 words, the summary contains 208 words. Saved 64%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
I still don’t get how the wet market theory is less racist than the escaped from a lab theory.
Because one can be pinned down to government involvement, while the other can’t.
It’s the classic CCP defense: “We’re not an authoritarian country, you’re just racist!”.
EDIT: not saying that it was or wasn’t a lab leak, but as soon as the government shoots down the possibility with “you’re racist”, I immediately get suspicious. The same way that I get suspicious when Israel shoots down criticism with “you’re just anti-Semitic”. It’s basically gaslighting with identity politics.
It was never the theory that was racist, it was the amount of evidence behind it.
If “there’s a virology lab there” was all the evidence you needed to assert it was a lab leak, chances are it’s because you’re racist. That’s why early on, this theory was most popular with far-right reactionaries.
Meanwhile, what’s been the origin story of every similar virus? Animal trade. That’s why early on, this theory was most popular with actual scientists who were actually qualified to have an opinion.
Here’s an article from the AP on how the WHO team had full access to everything they wanted to see during their visit to Wuhan.
You’ll notice that link goes through the Wayback Machine, because the article now just says page unavailable.
Which is weird, because the search result clearly shows the text is still there.
Would “impartial” Western media really do that? Half-assedly delete the inconvenient truths that they themselves reported?
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The headline would be unsurprising even if it ended at the word China.
What
Can somebody ban these tankies they’re getting annoying
The source of COVID is likely China’s $60 billion dollar+ fur industry, and that is the reason they don’t want anyone looking. I’d bet if they did analysis, ancestors of COVID are found in the bats in Suning County, which is fairly close to Wuhan and one of the largest fur markets on the planet. The raccoon dogs that were sold at the market in Wuhan were likely animals with poor fur coats (because they were sick) and sent to butcher rather than being skinned for their fur. China’s fur industry requires vast tracts of land clearance since one of the primary furs, which is mink are obligate carnivores, so they need a supply of meat. The land clearance forces the horseshoe bats to roost in the barns with the animals that include minks and raccoon dogs. It explains every aspect of that the lab leak theory fails to address, with the two lineages, the genetic clock starting in October, and even why it spilled over to people in the time period that it did
The headline says “fact-finding mission to China” though.
