• MultigrainCerealista [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    Im glad you acknowledge that Ukraine and the west does not have a moral leg to stand on but I hope you eventually take the next step and recognize that means the hundreds of thousands of dead and permanently injured Ukrainians and Russians makes this a moral travesty and a crime against humanity.

    Recognizing the moral right lies with the separatists but choosing to support the use of military force against them because “fuck Russia” makes you the bad guy.

    • SigloPseudoMundo
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      1 year ago

      Lol @ Russia apologists trying to defend Russias invasion and genocide of the Ukrainian people + spouting easily debunkable talking points. Can’t wait until I get you hear to spill the same watered down trash when the ruskies invade Poland for the 8th time this century.

          • CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            Since you like relying on evidence and moral bases so much, what is your evidence Russia is committing a genocide in Ukraine? Reminder: a genocide has to be explicit. Killing soldiers of a country you’re at war with does not meet the standard to be killed genocide.

        • SigloPseudoMundo
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          1 year ago

          Remember the Molotov ribbentrop pact? Or that time after WWI? You’ve got a super selective memory. I give you points for almost directly quoting your god emperor putin on that one.

          • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            You know France and England signed some pacts with the Nazis is the lead up to the Soviets making a deal with the devil, right? And the Soviets knew the nazis were always going to invade them, because they literally just knew about what the Nazis were publicly stating they’d like to do.

            • SigloPseudoMundo
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              1 year ago

              I’m assuming you’re talking about the Munich pact? Yeah it might’ve been a mistake but the allies needed time to build up. I suspect that the soviets would’ve invaded Germany if they hadn’t been attacked first.

              • I’m assuming you’re talking about the Munich pact? Yeah it might’ve been a mistake but the allies needed time to build up.

                In order to attack Germany, right?

                I suspect that the soviets would’ve invaded Germany if they hadn’t been attacked first.

                This is good.

                It seems like all the major allied powers wanted to build up to attack Germany. The only difference was the Soviets saw fascism as an existential threat and the other major allied powers saw them as potential competition.

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                the [western] allies needed time to build up.

                No, they didn’t, unlike the Soviets who were dramatically less developed on account of starting from a war-torn semi-feudal backwater.

                I suspect that the soviets would’ve invaded Germany if they hadn’t been attacked first.

                What’s your point in even mentioning this? To demonstrate that you know that they weren’t allies? Invading Nazi Germany is a good thing to do! Especially in the case of a Slavic country that would be subjected to genocide (as the USSR, like Poland, historically was) if they just waited for the Nazis to invade!

                • SigloPseudoMundo
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                  1 year ago

                  Yup, no one’s gonna argue that the Soviets can’t make a lot of tanks. What’s my point in saying that? Just shooting the shit, lol anything I say will be taken out of context and used as justification that I’m a Nazi. So good on you for being another rube.

          • MultigrainCerealista [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            You mean the areas populated by Belorussians and Ukrainians that was conquered by Poland from Russia in the war of 1922 when Poland took advantage of the civil war to seize a big chunk of Belorussian and ukraine and taken back by Russia when the polish state collapsed following the Nazi invasion of Poland?

            None of the Russian parts of the MR pact were populated by mostly polish people, with the exception of Lviv which is still part of Ukraine today.

            It’s a selective reading of history to call Belorussians and Ukrainians the rightful property of Poland especially in light of the brutal Polonization campaign they suffered, being reduced to serfdom by Polish invaders.

            As it happens I’d actually support restoring that part to Poland, Lviv, and also the Hungarian bit of Ukraine to Hungary since both of those ethnic minorities, along with the ethnic Greek minority, have all been suffering a lot under the rule of the Ukrainian nationalists and have also faced restrictions on their internal self determination such as language rights being suppressed or in the case of the Greek minority also religious persecution.

            • SigloPseudoMundo
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              1 year ago

              Ahh considering Poland didn’t exist until after WW1 & both sides disregarded the curzon line it’s hard to say where Polands eastern border should’ve been but I do agree that they def pushed too far east. I don’t understand your reference to serfdom. I thought that was abolished in the 18th century.

              • MultigrainCerealista [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                You’re really going to argue the polinization campaign in Belorussia and Ukraine in the 1920s and 30s was a good thing? A moral gray area?

                Jesus fucking Christ.

                Hopefully you’re a teenager who doesn’t know what you’re talking about because if you do then you need to eat a brick if you’re really going to take that line, and there are plenty of people alive in both belorussia and Ukraine today who would feed it to you if they heard you saying that including the Ukrainian nationalists and Nazi gangs you are here supporting.

                One of the more brutal events of the 20th century that is only overlooked due to the fact that Poland soon suffered worse evils than those Poland inflicted on the Ukrainians and Belorussians at the hands of the Nazis - until the Soviets kicked the Nazis out.

                Edit: actually given your world view includes supporting the campaign of Ukrainization and the violent assimilationist policies directed at the ethnic minorities in Ukraine, you have form here. It seems you’re actually very comfortable with violence being used against ethnic minorities given how you’re here supporting multiple instances of it.

                But honestly, and I am truly being straight with you here, I think the more likely truth is you’re a bit of a dumbass who doesn’t know your history and you don’t actually realize what you’re supporting here but your ego won’t let you let go.

                  • MultigrainCerealista [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    It’s not well covered in English language history which basically just skips over the fact poland was a viciously fascist state in the 1930s but it does get covered by Timothy Snyder, although he has a pretty firmly anti-Russian slant through his work.

                    You can see a lot of the works that cover it are in Polish, Ukrainian and Russian

                    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarusian_minority_in_Poland

                    60-70 hangings a day to fight “guerrillas”, floggings and torture to control the population, the Belorussians not having access to the education system, and the use of concentration camps to hold political activists, and trade unionists. Language rights were suppressed and the local population were forcibly “Polonized” / assimilated while also being held in an oppressed state as a cheap labor force for Polish settlers who were given the land as an agricultural fiefdom no different in any sense from the lebensraum concept - especially during the Polish fascist period of the mid to late 1930s.

                    Today the western part of Belorussia is still less industrialized than the east and the divide clearly falls along the line of polish occupation and colonial-settlement.

                    Ironically it was the atrocious treatment of the Belorussian minority that Hitler pointed at when claiming the German minority in Poland needed to be “rescued” - although the German minority were actually not treated badly.

                • SigloPseudoMundo
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                  1 year ago

                  When did I say I supported that? Curzon line it’s fine with me. You’re the dumbass who fits words into other people’s mouths lol

        • SigloPseudoMundo
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          1 year ago

          Hey look here’s the news source (village voice) you posted talking about what they’re doing in Ukraine right now. Lol nice one https://www.villagevoice.com/russias-crimes-in-ukraine-against-humanity-and-nature/

          “By general consensus, Stalin was partially responsible.” That author would’ve been executed or gulaged in the ussr since it was a crime to mention the holodomor & blame the authorities. I bet to you that sounds exactly like how a responsible government would respond to criticism.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Layers of deflection to avoid just reading a fucking article. No, mentioning the famine was not a crime and you are literally just making that up because you think it fits the vibe of things.

            Why are you so unwilling to contend with the actual content of the article?

        • SigloPseudoMundo
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          1 year ago

          Even if Russians killed every Ukrainian there’d still be dummies like u in this thread claiming no genocide happened & that it was their fault for resisting.