The article below was submitted by Dan Farhat, an author and researcher based in Beirut, Lebanon. Dan responds to the critique made of China by some of the (particularly Western) left, that the introduction of market mechanisms from 1978 onwards was a betrayal of socialism and that China has become – or is on its … Continue reading Challenging the purists: the Marxist debate over China’s path
State seems to be under the control of a governing class that is already separated from proletariat, and the socialist idea of workers having direct control over the state institutions in that sense seems to no be a reality there. Bureaucrat governing specialists class seems to not be exactly the idea pf workers democracy. Socialism needs direct democracy in some form and not “representatives” that already live in a different reality.
Bureaucrat governing specialists class seems to not be exactly the idea pf workers democracy.
Socialism needs direct democracy in some form and not “representatives” that already live in a different reality.
Why wouldn’t you want specialists in charge? You have a view of the world where a gardener and a clothing factory manager should have direct input on state medical policy? On foreign policy? On the details of implementation of an ecological plan to protect a distant region they’ve never visited? I hope you can understand that’s absurd.
If I have medical problems I don’t act like a crank and ask random cranks on the internet what I should do then listen to their nonsense advice to treat it with essential oils and eating nothing but meat for a month. I go to a medical doctor who has a degree and is certified. The doctor consults with me hopefully and explains what is going on, what they’re going to do. what I need to do and gives me the chance to ask some questions to be informed.
People do not have time or energy to inform themselves about all the details of things in order to make rational, scientific choices on all policy while trying to do their actual day-jobs and enjoy recreation. That’s why there exists the party and bureaucrats who help draft, debate, etc such things to achieve OBJECTIVES that meet the wants and needs of the people and who are answerable to them for the results.
You likely have a chauvinism, a prejudice, a capitalist defined idea of this precious pure form of socialism that can never exist anywhere and never will. More specifically a kind of fetish for this ideal that you’re convinced is the only acceptable goal (why? propaganda. Whose? western capitalists who claim their liberal system is closest to this ideal and therefore you should side with them until this perfect socialism they’ve depicted arrives (it never will), how convenient!).
A system is what it does. If the rulers of a place so fear the people they have to pretend to be communists and do everything communists would do to serve the people (a ridiculous notion I think) I fail to see a difference in outcome. It is outcomes we concern ourselves with. Marxism is not a religion. It is about results. Purity fetishism gets you nowhere, it makes you feel self-righteous and good but it doesn’t feed kids, it doesn’t lessen exploitation, it doesn’t build a better world, it doesn’t improve the lives of others. Communism is not a switch, it is a historical process that resolves contradictions over time but not immediately, it shall exist with contradictions just as capitalism has contradictions.
Whats your reasoning behind this?
State seems to be under the control of a governing class that is already separated from proletariat, and the socialist idea of workers having direct control over the state institutions in that sense seems to no be a reality there. Bureaucrat governing specialists class seems to not be exactly the idea pf workers democracy. Socialism needs direct democracy in some form and not “representatives” that already live in a different reality.
Why do you say there is a separated class of rulers? Nothing seems to indicate that.
Anyone can join politics in China, and many of top officials rose from being farmers, factory workers, elementary school teachers etc.
Do you know how their government works? How democracy works in China?
Could you provide some reading material for those off us who want to have a better understanding of their political process?
Why wouldn’t you want specialists in charge? You have a view of the world where a gardener and a clothing factory manager should have direct input on state medical policy? On foreign policy? On the details of implementation of an ecological plan to protect a distant region they’ve never visited? I hope you can understand that’s absurd.
If I have medical problems I don’t act like a crank and ask random cranks on the internet what I should do then listen to their nonsense advice to treat it with essential oils and eating nothing but meat for a month. I go to a medical doctor who has a degree and is certified. The doctor consults with me hopefully and explains what is going on, what they’re going to do. what I need to do and gives me the chance to ask some questions to be informed.
People do not have time or energy to inform themselves about all the details of things in order to make rational, scientific choices on all policy while trying to do their actual day-jobs and enjoy recreation. That’s why there exists the party and bureaucrats who help draft, debate, etc such things to achieve OBJECTIVES that meet the wants and needs of the people and who are answerable to them for the results.
Here is what Xi Jinping has to say on China’s democracy: https://redsails.org/xi-on-democracy/
Here are some other pointers: https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq.html#is-china-a-democracy
https://medium.com/@neoflorian/how-china-maintains-working-class-rule-highlighting-the-feedback-mechanisms-of-the-chinese-system-c5710759a51f
You likely have a chauvinism, a prejudice, a capitalist defined idea of this precious pure form of socialism that can never exist anywhere and never will. More specifically a kind of fetish for this ideal that you’re convinced is the only acceptable goal (why? propaganda. Whose? western capitalists who claim their liberal system is closest to this ideal and therefore you should side with them until this perfect socialism they’ve depicted arrives (it never will), how convenient!).
A system is what it does. If the rulers of a place so fear the people they have to pretend to be communists and do everything communists would do to serve the people (a ridiculous notion I think) I fail to see a difference in outcome. It is outcomes we concern ourselves with. Marxism is not a religion. It is about results. Purity fetishism gets you nowhere, it makes you feel self-righteous and good but it doesn’t feed kids, it doesn’t lessen exploitation, it doesn’t build a better world, it doesn’t improve the lives of others. Communism is not a switch, it is a historical process that resolves contradictions over time but not immediately, it shall exist with contradictions just as capitalism has contradictions.
That’s absolutely not the case. Here’s an article explaining that Chinese system actually encourages decentralized governance and grassroots organization from bottom up. https://www.noemamag.com/what-the-west-misunderstands-about-power-in-china/
Similarly, the government is also organized based on using grassroots structures as its foundation https://news.cgtn.com/event/2021/who-runs-the-cpc/index.html
You’re making claims out of ignorance here.