when i saw that announcement post i literally did a double take at my watch to make sure it wasn’t April Fool’s Day
like that’s how dumb this idea was i thought it was a joke at first
Btw does someone have some place where i can read what happened exactly?
self plug but people found this valuable: https://lemmy.cafe/post/12094663
Fantastic use of that meme format
Having so many communities concentrated in one instance is a problem
Having an architecture that locks communities to an instance is a problem. They should be distributed across the network with no notion of a home instance.
Then you run into problems with instance admins disagreeing over moderation
That’s just mastodon tags
Hmmm I see your point
How would moderation work then?
Moderation is also just an event in the protocol, just like votes or comments. Your instance would simply have to aggregate all those events, just like the current “home instances” do for their communities.
does ActivityPub disallow this at all?
No. ActivityPub is intentionally open/non-restrictive.
Essentially, tags in mastodon are already what I described, just without moderation.
Probably better than whatever batshit moderation happens right now on the tankie instances
It would be different. The end-user would have to moderate their feeds, they’d have to find the same community provided by platform hosts who align with the users moderation values, or be ok with hiding content themselves.
The end-user would have to moderate their feeds
Ah yes, I love a feed where I have to view and delete the alt-right trolls and CSAM myself.
Isn’t that the way Nostr works, and thus if full of alt-right trolls escaping moderation?
PieFed (the non-tankie Lemmy alternative written in Python rather than Rust) allows for that. Atm it’s fairly primitive unless you make your own instance but ultimately it democratizes the moderation process to allow the end user what they want to see or not. Like instead of “remove” or “allow” content, it can automatically be “collapsed” with an option to uncollapse it whenever someone chooses. And/or labels can be placed next to usernames - like “<2 week old account” or “has 10x more downvotes than upvotes” - except it is actually icons that are used rather than such long phrases. You can put custom icons of any type next to any individual user that you want, for any reason - e.g. to help their comments stand out as you scroll, or to remind you to be careful replying, or whatever custom reason you chose to remind yourself of.
Edit: and all that I’ve said here is already available. So I guess it’s not so primitive after all, especially when keyword filters get added (new features appear all the time - it being in Python makes its development cycle FAST!), but what I meant is that even more is planned, to further reduce the manual burden of moderation efforts. Also, the entire sidebar appears below every single post, unlike in some apps where it it quite buried behind several clicks. It’s not fully ready for the masses yet but it’s coming along nicely, and already has several features that Lemmy lacks (and vice versa unfortunately).
Edit 2: based on db0’s comment, I should mention that PieFed also has Mastodon style tags too, on top of not only communities but on top of that too there are Categories of Communities. This is getting confusing to describe so just look at this example - the hierarchy above the post shows the Categories, the tags are below it, and the YouTube link is natively embedded in between.
Yeah but it’s written in Python.
Which will lead to faster development?
Or are you saying that the code will be shittier as a result? I do wonder about that, but also if the errors can get made quickly enough and then resolved, the overall process could still end up being faster?:-P
Just joking since I’m not a fan of Python’s design choices, but I do worry that as development goes on the tech debt will pile up and will be more difficult to maintain.
They still to be attached to an instance at the protocol level. Or you have instances which are barely network components rather than communities, but that’s not what ActivityPub is about
And that’s a problem.
However, there’s nothing stopping a developer from extending the protocol to support it. You can essentially throw a message into the fediverse with more or less arbitrary payloads. Adding something like a feed/community identifier is not impossible.
196 is a fascist shithole and they are leaving blahaj because they finally acknowledged that fact and that there is an associated problem with misogynists and chasers on their platform. Good on blahaj for kicking out the trash.
They will be right at home on .world and frankly concentrating all the reactionaries there is good because it will drive other people to less shitty instances.
It’s called a fediverse for a reason
Why?
Because then allowing flat-earthers affect all the communities: https://lemmy.world/post/24135976
Also huge delay with some instances
Drag saw 196 mods mentioning their plan to move instances after Ada told them not to misgender trans people. “Ideological differences”, huh? Wonder what that’s code for
You did piss off a couple of powerusers dedicated to instance wars, but the mods are working to insist that’s not what any of this is about.
In the past 15 hours drag has read a lot about why the mods did it. Apparently, they weren’t closing reports on Blahaj, so Ada actioned them, and Ada was stricter with the rules than they liked.
When Ada said neopronouns aren’t trolling, drag saw a lot of transphobic comments on 196 that the mods weren’t removing. Drag was already banned from the community at that time and couldn’t report them, so drag contacted Ada directly, and Ada removed them.
At that time, moving the community out of the instance was a “maybe”. Perhaps neopronouns were the last straw. At the time, the 196 mods were saying they didn’t agree with the removals and bans of transphobia and misgendering.
I don’t fully understand this.
While having one big instance is not ideal, isn’t the idea that it should be easy to move once and if the big instance becomes draconian?
I thought the whole point of the fediverse was not to get locked into a walled garden and be able to decentralize as needed, ending up with a few big players is inevitable, no?
I’ve heard it’s supposed to be ready to move, but I still haven’t figured out the new “easy” way of moving my stuff to a new instance, at least on Voyager
The issue here is that the community was doing well on one instance, then the mods decided to move without asking the community.
Details on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Okay yeah that’s a problem.
Mods have been weird lately, my comment got removed for using the R word, not removedant.
removeder?
I was working on a removeder today (am diesel mechanic) unfortunately whoever designed it was fucking removed cause fuck me was it a cunt to get out
I remember seeing a removeder button when I was a kid and allowed to play in a big vehicle. Followed by obvious pushing of the button and pointing at your friend.
Instance wars are so fucking pathetic
You would say that coming from that dungheap at lemmy.zip!
deleted by creator
Emperor is joking. Lemmy.zip is great, very nice adminis
Nothing wrong at all, just pulling your leg in response to your post. We get on very well the l.z Admins, so it felt safe to do so as I don’t know how good @Demigodrick@lemmy.zip is at fighting. If you aren’t signed up here then that’s a great option too.
A balloon is an accurate allegory for reddit.world. it may be big but it’s empty of anything of substance.
Thanks for keeping us up-to-date and jumping across communities/instances for this
You’re welcome
Also, lots of discussion under the announcement post in the new comm https://lemmy.world/post/24437552.
Omg the disparity is palpable.
The post you linked:
we are going to continue to moderate on this instance exactly the same as we did on blahaj.zone.
The “we’ve already left” style post on blahaj:
Why? That’s a complicated question with a long answer! The primary difference is moderatorial and ideologial differences between my team and Ada’s excellent team of admins…
Edit: so in asking whether the moderation will appear the same to the users, the answer is “well yes, except actually no”.
Even better one mod said
I can guarantee we will not be expected to entertain trolls
Their ideological differences have clearly been spelled out as not wanting to respect people whose identities they deem invalid.
On the other hand, they seem to be doing the community a service… by leaving it and going over to Lemmy.World🤪!
Only 2-3 hours old and already 36 posts (less than a minute later 43, I’ll stop updating this now:-), nearly 400 users, 174 subscribers (I guess the others simply voted or commented?) - this is taking off like a rocket!
The mods forgot the basic Rule of Lemmy: fuck spez.
Those mods almost pulled a spez
I mean… okay so technically they didn’t, but only technically. I think I saw where you asked the question: who owns a community? They acted like the mods did, and now having FA, they are FO that they in fact do not own it nearly to the degree that the community members themselves do.
So now the community is split, and they may find themselves having to do a lot less moderation work in the future.
I contributed a post myself to help them out.:-)
Thank you for your post!
I’m on LW and both communities seem empty. This usually indicates defederation, right?
No, that’s something with your client. When I go to https://lemmy.world/c/yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com I see plenty of posts.
It’s strange, when I’m logged in on the web app or use Sync I see nothing, when I’m not logged in to the web app it’s fine. Also using the Eternity app works fine.
That is weird, maybe check your language settings? Make sure you have ‘Undetermined’ selected. If not, maybe log out and back in.
Checked it, it’s on Undetermined. Logged back in just in case, but nothing.
Either I got banned or something else is afoot. But we’re getting quite offtopic so I’ll leave it here. Thanks for the suggestion!
The community is now locked on blahaj. In the past even from the Lemmy UI locking a post has caused issues with it federating properly, like votes and comments aren’t sent out any longer, so perhaps Sync won’t show it for that reason?
Perhaps force quit and restart your app, maybe even restart your phone.
Do you have the community blocked or something?
Nah I checked all my filters and blocks but dbzer0 is not on there. Did I get banned? XD
Also banned people can still see posts and comments from where they are banned
Sync has a bug where you can’t see posts on your home instance.
Seems like they didn’t get the memo that the entire point of coming here was to decentralize.
Then again /c/196 sucks so that’s a fitting instance for them. Blahaj is marginally better.
More like Nonce Sense.
196 is a horrible community full of transmysoginists and chasers and literal fascists.
196 is a horrible community full of transmysoginists and chasers and literal fascists
Could you provide examples? i’ve had generally good experiences with them. However i’m not active on it so i don’t know.
Here’s an example of them defending chasers.
Thanks. That example’s pretty confusing for me to follow due to lack of context, so i won’t comment on it. But ig trans chasers are cis guys interested in trans women/men? I haven’t actually seen this on c/196.
But i remember this was a huge problem on r/196. It was basically an entire circlejerk of cis people talking about how much they love femboys and trans girls and the actual trans people were the minority. The lemmy community doesn’t seem to have this.
full of transmysoginists and chasers and literal fascists.
This feels too far fetched to call them as nakoichi called them imo. (i’m not including your example due to as i said, not being able to understand it)
Honestly I don’t have the energy right now to go digging through old posts but there is a reason we defederated from blahaj, and it was well documented on hexbear at one point.
196 on reddit was originally kind of alright but lax moderation allowed chasers and reactionaries in and they basically took over the subreddit and then inserted themselves into blahaj. Ada refused to acknowledge this problem and we severed ties but it looks like she realized we were right as I hear there are talks of refederating as one of our conditions was the removal of the 196 mods and tightening up moderation on their end.
Nice! I always found it sad how the entirety of hexbear and blahaj were separated just because of one community.
Strange, i thought they were an left-libertarian community? Sounds odd for them to be like that. I’ll try to see more about it i guess.
left-libertarian community?
More like just libertarian at the end. Anticommunism ran rampant and allowed fascists to insert themselves into moderation positions at which point it just became a reactionary shithole.
My advice is be very wary of any community the is specifically “anti-tankie” it always leads to the same thing.
Tankie is just another iteration of anti-communist dogwhistles, like “woke” or “sjw” or most recently “DEI”.
They hate us because we are honest with our goals and aims and that they are correct. The communists disdain to hide their views and aims for they know that they can only succeed through the total overthrow of all social and economic institutions. We have nothing to lose but our chains, and a world to win.
This is the best I could find, though I don’t think it substantiates claims being made. It’s also over a year old and so might not represent the current state of 196.
Besides the first (i agree that it is blatant ableism and shouldn’t be allowed in a space like that) and the last part (i can’t see it, the image is censored) everything seems fine anyway.
If i as a libertarian socialist went to chapo and started shitting on china, marxism-leninsm and stuff, that’d get me a ban. I mean, i see no reason why not, it’s their space. Same thing with 196; they’ve clearly said they don’t want tankies, so they shouldn’t have to deal with them.
And add to the fact that this is 1 year old, i’m not sure if a lot of these apply anymore. I wouldn’t imagine blahaj as a place to accept stuff like ableism, and as Nakoichi claimed:
full of transmysoginists and chasers and literal fascists
I don’t see evidence of that here.
Perhaps 196 has changed, but they were a significant part of why Hexbear isn’t fedded with blahaj. Now that 196 is gone/going, both sides are a lot more willing to federate.
Makes sense. The two padded rooms of Lemmy.
No way (that there is only two:-)
