Imagine having a government that demands things of its corporations instead of the other way around
American government actually makes more demands on their citizens. Street level China is still very laissez-faire in most cities.
Imagine having a Government that uses political prisoners as forced laborers.
Imagine having a government that uses incarcerated people of colour as forced laborers.
I don’t have to imagine that I live in the US
No need to imagine. Slavery is conditionally legal in the US, as written in the Thirteenth Amendment.
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The person you’re replying to never even refuted the claim about China. Many people don’t know about the 13th amendment, so it’s actually relevant to the conversation. Your weirdly hostile reply isn’t relevant because it’s reductive and misplaced. If you truly cared about forced labor, you wouldn’t be trying to squash conversation about it.
No, it’s just Yankeestan.
Imagine…
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States
- World Incarceration Rates If Every U.S. State Were A Country
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The lowest is Massachusetts, at 275 per 100K. China is less than half that, at 121.
I assume you understand the difference between political prisoners and normal prisoners, right? Unless those numbers represents political prisoners, I fail to see the point you made.
Imagine having a Government that uses political prisoners as forced laborers.
Political prisoners, like Julian Assange, or like the millions of nonwhite people in the “war on drugs”?
- https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/race-mass-incarceration-and-disastrous-war-drugs
- https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/50-year-war-on-drugs-imprisoned-millions-of-black-americans
Are people who commit domestic terrorist attacks political prisoners? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China
- 5 February 1992: Two buses exploded in Urumqi, resulting in at least 3 deaths, and 23 injured.
- 27 February 1997: Bombs detonated on three buses in Urumqi, leaving nine dead and 68 seriously wounded. The Uyghur Liberation Party claims responsibility for the bombings.
- 19 August 1997: Two gunmen shot into a crowd after attempting to rob shopkeepers in Urumqi, killing 7 people and hospitalizing 11.
- 1 October 1997: Uyghur separatists detonate a bomb in Kutyun, killing 22 people.
- February – April 1998: A series of six explosions occurred in February and March aimed at economic and industrial targets. The following month, authorities reported that bombs exploded at homes and offices of local communist party and public security agents.
- 19 April 1998: A police officer and two separatist militants were killed in a shootout during a police siege of a separatist hideout. Another police officer was wounded and four separatists captured during the operation.
- 25 June 1999: A bus is bombed by Uighur separatists, killing one and injuring 50
- 4 August 2008: ETIM militants reportedly drove a truck into a group of approximately 70 jogging policemen. According to official Chinese media accounts, they then got out of the truck wielding machetes, and lobbed grenades at the officers, killing 16 people. Police investigators recovered explosives as well as a homemade firearm.
- 10 August 2008: Xinhua reported that seven men armed with homemade explosives reportedly drove taxis into government buildings, in Kuqa, Xinjiang, injuring at least two police officers and a security guard. Five of the assailants were shot and killed. The attacks began at 2:30 am when five assailants drove taxis into the local public security and industry and commerce buildings. The Communist Party chief in Xinjiang condemned the attack as an act of terrorism, and suspected the ETIM was responsible.
- 12 August 2008: Chinese media reported that three security officers were killed in a stabbing incident in Yamanya, near Kashgar in Xinjiang. The report did not specify what the attacker’s affiliations were.
- 5 July 2009: A series of violent riots over several days broke out on 5 July 2009 in Ürümqi, the capital city of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, in northwestern China. The first day’s rioting, which involved at least 1,000 Uyghurs, began as a protest, but escalated into violent attacks that mainly targeted Han people. According to Chinese state media, a total of 197 people died, most of whom were Han people or non-Muslim minorities, with 1,721 others injured and many vehicles and buildings destroyed.
- 19 August 2010: According to Chinese media reports, six ethnic Uyghur men were allegedly involved in loading a vehicle with explosives and driving into a group of security officers at a highway intersection near Aksu, Xinjiang. Seven people, including two attackers, were killed, according to police
- 18 July 2011: Chinese media reported that 18 people died when 18 young Uyghur men stormed a police station in the city of Hotan. The men stabbed a security guard and two female hostages, and killed another security guard with a bomb.
- 30–31 July 2011: At least 18 people died in a series of alleged terrorist attacks in the city of Kashgar. According to state-run media accounts, the violence began when two Uyghur men hijacked a truck, ran it into a crowded street, and started stabbing people, killing six. On the second day, state media reported that a “group of armed terrorists” stormed a restaurant, killed the owner and a waiter, and set it ablaze. They then proceeded to indiscriminately kill four more civilians. The Turkistan Islamic Party later claimed responsibility for the attack.
- 29 June 2012 Chinese official media reported that six men attempted to hijack Tianjin Airlines flight GS7554 from Hotan to Urumqi, Xinjiang. The men reportedly sought to gain access to cockpit ten minutes after takeoff, but were stopped by passengers and crew. A spokesperson for the Xinjiang government said the men were ethnic Uyghurs. Xinhua reported at least 10 passengers and crew were injured when six hijackers tried to take control of the aircraft.
- 24 April 2013: It was an incident of ethnic clash that took place between Muslim Uyghur and Han Chinese community. As reported by BBC nearly 21 people were killed in the incident including 15 police officers and local government officials.
- 30 April 2014: A knife attack and bombing occurred in the Chinese city of Ürümqi, the capital of China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. The attack left three people dead and seventy-nine others injured.
- 22 May 2014: Two sport utility vehicles (SUVs) carrying five assailants were driven into a busy street market in Ürümqi. Up to a dozen explosives were thrown at shoppers from the windows of the SUVs. The SUVs crashed into shoppers then collided with each other and exploded. 43 people were killed, including 4 of the assailants, and more than 90 wounded.
- 28 November 2014: Militants with knives and explosives attacked civilians, 15 dead and 14 injured. 14 of the 15 deaths were attackers.
- 6 March 2015: Three ethnic Uyghur assailants with long knives attacked civilians at Guangzhou train station, 13 injured.
- 24 June 2015: Group killed several police with knives and bombs at traffic checkpoint before 15 suspects died in armed response
- 18 September 2015: An unidentified group of knife-wielding men attacked off-duty workers at a coalmine, killing 50, among them 5 police officers
- 29 December 2016: Islamic militants drove a vehicle into a yard at the county Communist party offices and set off a bomb but were all shot dead. Three people were wounded and one other died.
Does the name Liu Xiaobo ring a bell?
So, demand for democratic election should land anyone in jail, right?
yeah just imagine
- https://news.uchicago.edu/story/us-prison-labor-programs-violate-fundamental-human-rights-new-report-finds
- https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploitation-of-incarcerated-workers
- https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e
- https://freedomnetworkusa.org/2023/08/11/forced-labor-in-prisons/
- https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/27/slavery-loophole-unpaid-labor-in-prisons
- https://sites.uab.edu/humanrights/2024/02/01/modern-american-slavery-forced-prison-labor/
Actually all prisoners in America are political prisoners because politics determines the laws that put them in prison
That’s a funny way to put it, but kinda sorta true. Anti-cannabis laws for majority black users…
Why not both?
Because there is actual evidence for Yankeestan while there is no evidence for this happening in China. Not only that, but per capita incarceration rate in China is far lower than in US overall.
Sure but I think it probably isn’t as easy to gather evidence for this in China than it is in the US. That’s why I think it’s fair to assume the lack of evidence doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. There’s evidence this occurred in collapsed regimes of similar stripes. It’s plausible that China isn’t an exception. I’m not at all suggesting whether this is widespread or not. I have no clue. It could be extremely rare.
No question about the incarceration rates.
What is this notion that it’s harder to collect evidence in China is based on exactly, also what collapsed regimes of similar stripes are you even talking about?
I’m talking about other one-party communist regimes like the ones in the USSR, Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, East Germany, etc. Yes I’m aware they’re they’re not identical, including in rates of political prisoners. The one I’m from had relatively few.
Not sure what you’re talking about then because after the dissolution of USSR and transition to a liberal capitalist regime both crime and incarceration shot up dramatically.
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China doing something
For show or for their own ends?
nothing will ever satisfy you people because you’ve already made up your minds about being xenophobic weirdos
they could save the entire planet from an asteroid strike and you’d still probably go “okay but they only did it for show”
Honestly the USA is going fucking insane and China is starting to look stable and rational by comparison.
China is like “yes, we are predictably slightly evil” America wakes up every day, takes a fistfull of Hunter S Thompsons briefcase, snorts it and then hucks a dart at a D&D alignment chart.
China’s not even slightly evil though. It’s suffered from bureaucracy in responding to evil, sure, but that’s going to happen to all groups of beings above a certain number for all time.
For Show means that some official is just making noise to appeal their their higher ups and nothing will come of it.
For Their Own Ends means that they don’t want protest groups forming where they can’t see it.
i know exactly what you meant, i just think you’re completely full of it.
cool cool
being xenophobic weirdos
Found the wumao.
The CCP and Chinese people are different things. No one is criticizing Chinese people.
Yeah, it’s only comprised of millions and supported by the majority of Chinese people who, according to you white savior liberals, are too stupid and brainwashed to know better.
You can’t even imagine that someone might not be mindlessly frothing in rage over everything China does isn’t a paid Chinese shill. Fuck off, you xenophobic weirdo.
according to you white savior liberals
Where the hell did you get I’m white? Or that I don’t have Chinese family?
are too stupid and brainwashed to know better.
Or just limited in the news from outside the country.
isn’t a paid Chinese shill.
Ok, so an unpaid wumao.
System providers should avoid recommendation algorithms that create “echo chambers” and induce addiction, allow manipulation of trending items, or exploit gig workers’ rights, the notice said.
They should also crack down on unfair pricing and discounts targeting different demographics, ensure “healthy content” for elderly and children, and impose a robust “algorithm review mechanism and data security management system”.
Lemmy has no problems with this.
nah, its a big step ahead of letting unelected billionaires control discourse, instead of an elected governing body.
Lemmy is still shit governance wise. It’s just a bunch of fiefdom managed by god knows who, there’s absolutely nothing democratic about it.
It’s not zero, each fiefdom has very little power to keep users. As it is right now, a user unhappy with their instance culture or laws can move to another instance. Comparing it to moving in real life, in real life you have a lifetime worth of things that tie you to your fiefdom. Comparing it to well established and centralised social media, then those fiefdoms still have a lot of power over you.
Your social network can’t come with you, they’re SSO providers, they’re tracking and human-verification providers, they have high quality exclusive content, they’re sometimes the only channel for interacting with some third parties you have to interact with (Government, utility company, etc).
no one corporation can censor it or turn it into an altright cesspool.
every individual or company can have a federated instance if they please. lemmy is more akin to the old forums, which are a massive step forward.
not perfect; much better.
although i think my op was responding to another comment and i did a wrong.
Instances are worthless, what has value are the /c/ and absolutely nothing in the Lemmy model protects communities from the admin of the instance where it was created to go full Elon. I bet that at some point it will happen.
Most of the time you don’t even know who is running the instance. Suffice that one of them that’s running a large enough communities needs a bit of cash and decide to sell it. Or they could be in bed/owned by any intelligence agency/corporation/political party. Who knows.
I’ve spend a year in my lost time musing on the design of a truly decentralised model where identity, community, curation (moderation) and distribution are entirely decorrelated to address those specific issue among all the othes, including the one you mentioned. It’s complex, it’s a big task, but I don’t think it’s impossible. I’m too lazy to code it though :D
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absolutely nothing in the Lemmy model protects communities from the admin of the instance where it was created to go full Elon
I’d say the low cost of migration does, especially if user awareness remains high (and since most users are here over complaints of the APIs being restricted, I’d say there’s an above-average awareness). It’s pretty easy to clone a community onto another instance, and it would be trivial for users to migrate too.
As you discovered when you tried to get your friends to use Signal instead of whatsapp it’s actually very hard to move people.
Everyone was “yeah let’s leave Reddit the owner are evil and taking away our mobile apps”. Barely anyone did. It is not trivial to convince a group of people to move.
My point is that it’s very different from moving from WhatsApp to Signal, or from reddit to Lemmy.
Let’s imagine on an instance, a community mod started flooding their /c/technology with ads and deleting any posts criticising them. And suppose the admins decide not to step in, saying it’s their community and their right to do that.
How painful would it be for users to go from /c/technology over to /c/tech or /c/technology@other.site ? There is a far smaller barrier - it’s basically two clicks on their side to change their comm subscriptions, they don’t risk losing communication with friends or miss out on a larger site’s content feeds, or have to deal with ‘one more app’, they don’t have to learn a new tool, they just use a different community.
But it’s still better than Reddit, e.g.
Because Lemmy is a voluntary echo chamber.
While I think this is un enforceable, I started to be careful what I click.
Just one click can ruin my feed.
And it is boring watch all the same stuff in the feed. I have many different interests, just put them all in there don’t focus only on the last one.
I don’t understand why do they do it. Diverse content will engage me more.
yes, it got to a point where i tried to game the algorithms once on one of these platforms to get the type of content i want and nothing else. instead it started showing me the most disturbing shit imaginable. i eventually started to report the content but the more i reported it the more of that shit it would show me like i was some kind of unpaid moderator they wouldn’t need to cover with PTSD bills.
i have since moved on from algorithm-fueled platforms. i just do not understand the appeal of all the hate and bullshit it brings “for advertising engagement” that this whole bluesky fanbase is advertising like something good and useful.
