- cross-posted to:
- dataisbeautiful@lemmy.world
- cartographyanarchy@lemm.ee
- cross-posted to:
- dataisbeautiful@lemmy.world
- cartographyanarchy@lemm.ee
Thinking of red states vs blue states is busted. Plenty of good visualizations of this over the years, but this election in particular feels really important to point out “We” did not chose this.
When I say we I mean registered US voters, but even less so citizens, and even less so again residents.
Even of the voters who did vote for the GOP candidate, who can say how many really wanted him or his policies vs they just didn’t want more of the status quo Dems.
The popular vote tallies in this graphic are out of date too, He definitely didn’t win in a landslide the way it can appear with red and blue maps. His win in the popular vote was also pretty small now that more votes have been counted. https://www.thenation.com/…/donald-trump-vote-margin…/
So, what if Biden used broad immunity SCOTUS granted to declare a crisis of democracy - That between massive disinformation campaigns by enemies both foreign and domestic, voter suppression, as well as many other factors, the will of the people can’t be discerned from our recent presidential election. That it would be a dereliction of duty both to the people and to his oath to defend the constitution to hand over power to someone whose clear and declared intent is abuse the power of the office to fundamentally reshape or demolish our republic based on this highly suspect and incomplete result (remember, most people didn’t even vote)
Here is my off the cuff proposal for what to do after that
A new election, everyone must vote. Trump and Harris on the ballot, but each major party must offer 2 candidates, and we’re using Ranked Choice Voting. 1st place gets presidency, 2nd place gets VP.
Biden almost certainly won’t do anything like this. He is clearly a coward with a stupid sense of optimism - a “things will be just fine, no need for any drastic measures” ever, mentality, and despite some rhetoric has shown no signs that he thinks there is anything to actually be concerned about from the party which has veered hard towards fascism. But, hey, a guy can dream.
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Honestly, I see this outcome as the majority of the people saying, “Less politics, please.” How about we try something new that’s something old? Using juries to select presidents, governors, and other government officials. Randomly selected citizens decide life and death for people accused of a crime. That’s a jury. I think the majority of us would be okay with randomly selected juries deciding elections too, especially if it means a serious reduction in how much we have to witness of the political campaign process.
Donald Trump won the 2024 Presidential election in a free and fair election. The indisuptable fact is that 10 million or so Democrat voters chose, for whatever reason, to stay home. Your proposal essentially takes the whining that Trump has been spewing for 4 years and puts it on steroids. The 2024 election was not stolen; the American people had the chance to make their voices heard, and 10 million of them chose to say nothing. We as a country elected Trump, and now must start dealing with the consequences of that choice. Just like Trump, we don’t get a do-over if we don’t like the results.
I’m going to keep shouting this from the rootops until people get it throigh their skulls: TURNOUT WAS NOT THE ISSUE. Ignoring that people haven’t updated the totals in their head since the Friday after the election, turnout was only down in uncompetitive states. Across the 8-10 swing states turnout was up. More people voted where it mattered most compared to 2020. Find a better explanation because this isn’t it.
It wasnt exactly fair, considering Russia called in fake bomb threats to Democrat majority polling places and judges refused to extend voting hours to accommodate for the lost time.
Not to mention all of the voter suppression that the Rs pulled, on top of the fact that many people aren’t able to stand in line for hours to vote since election day isn’t a national holiday.
Why not mail in your vote in advance then? In Norway voting day isn’t a Holiday either. But we can vote early, so it really isn’t an inconvenience.
Unfortunately it’s still vulnerable to fire
The same issues apply to early voting. If you’re working during the hours they’re open, you can’t go vote. And not everyone is eligible to get a mail in ballot.
I don’t think every state allows early mail in
Yeah this isn’t like the last election in Germany before the Nazis, where armed brown-shirts were standing inside the polling places and half the opposition had been arrested in advance.
This was just a normal US election, and the result was Trump.
After he had already said what he’s about to do. In public. Many, many times.
And it wasn’t even close.I wouldnt say it was exactly normal. There were bomb threats in basically every close swing state area, and lots of voter suppression laws that went into effect (okay, that last part is pretty normal unfortunately)
and some ballot boxes(?) were set on fire
That’s too, people really tried hard to mess with the vote.
Never said it was stolen. if you have some counter to this “That between massive disinformation campaigns by enemies both foreign and domestic, voter suppression, as well as many other factors, the will of the people can’t be discerned from our recent presidential election.” I’d be interested to hear it.
I admit by that same logic Biden, Trump or other past winners may also be invalid, but that being true of past elections, doesn’t make it not true about this one.
Technically Trump is ineligible, per the 14th amendment. By the constitution, Harris won.
I know that Biden received 10M more votes than Harris, but the infographic states that 88M people stayed home. You think only 10M of them were Democrats?
Not voting is a choice.
Like it or not, this is what America chose. The only thing left to do is work to mitigate the damage and figure how to make more Americans take that choice seriously in the future.
Exactly. 88mil people were, at best, indifferent to a Trump presidency. Considering just how bad Trump is that is inexcusable. Like, imagine looking at that fuckwad and going “meh, I don’t really care either way.”
There is this saying : if you didn’t exercise your right to vote, you don’t have the right to complain about the election results either.
Not voting is effectively saying : “don’t care, either is good for me.” So… Yes you did choose this result by virtue of not making your opinion heard when you were asked for your opinion.
Because of the way Electoral College works especially, but many other factors contribute to apathetic non-voting behavior. Potential voters feel their vote literally doesn’t matter and statistically and practically speaking they are not wrong. Dismissing all of that by saying “non-voters also chose this” outcome is naive and shortsighted and is in my mind taking the side of injustice.
Bud, you can’t post a map showing that, if everyone voted, would-be nonvoters would have the power to change over half of the states’ electoral college results, then pair it with the statement “Potential voters feel their vote literally doesn’t matter and statistically and practically speaking they are not wrong.” You’re literally providing the statistical proof that they are wrong.
Look at your own map you posted. Then think about how much influence the non voters could have had. Given the fact that it’s apparently more than half the population it would have made a huge difference. Possibly with a very different election outcome. just because it feels like it doesn’t matter doesn’t make it true. Every vote changes the result after all. Even in a system that has flaws.
While it’s not great to pick a side that you don’t quite believe in it’s still better than not voting because that only helps the side that you really don’t want to see win. Which is exactly what happened. That is in my humble opinion the real shortsighted and naive thing Going on here.
Not voting also means they didn’t contribute to down ticket races and ballot initiatives which are often more competitive, and very consequential.
Vote or accept the outcomes. People who had the right to vote and refused to exercise that right are just as responsible for the outcome as everyone else.
For every left leaning person that protest voted third party or just decided not to bother for some perceived inadequacy in Kamala, real or imagined, congratulations. You played yourself. For every eligible non-voter, wake the fuck up. Harris was not perfect, definitely had some flaws and wishy washy positions. But you know what she was? Fucking normal. There is no policy for which Trump was superior, and there is no norm, tradition, law, or morality that Trump will not challenge, ignore, or destroy. You people need to fucking do something. Participation is the bare minimum. Grow up.
Update: To all you salty down voters, yes, I mean you. Grow up.
Not voting is not only refusing to participate in the democratic process (despite its flaws and choice of candidates), but it’s also silently accepting the outcome of it, no matter how much the impact of your tiny vote has.
If you care about what’s going on in any way, voting isn’t only a right, it’s a duty.
Can you make a map comparing 2020 to 2024? Was voter turnout like this last time? Cool map btw. Thank you
I’ll preface this by saying that I strongly feel that in a democratic society, citizens have a patriotic duty to do certain things. Jury duty makes our justice system work. Taxes make our public services work. Voting makes our democracy work.
I can’t fathom the idea of not voting. Even if you don’t support any particular candidate, you still have the option to pick the person who is less likely to ruin your way of life. I have voted in every election since I’ve been old enough to do so. I’ve voted for a few candidates I really believe in, and I’ve voted against a few I truly hated. I have never voted for a candidate that aligned with my views 100%, but I’ve always voted.
Given the popular vote numbers, it’s an undeniable fact that the majority of American voters support Trump. Given the lack of turnout, though, I have to wonder if it’s true that the majority of American citizens support Trump. A large group of the population supports the GOP, and a large group of the population just doesn’t give a shit. Both are equally to blame for the next 4 years of suffering.
Here is my off the cuff proposal for what to do after that
This is about as likely as my off the cuff proposal of flying around the planet faster than the speed of light so it rotates backwards and turns back time
yep, as I said – “But, hey, a guy can dream.”
Well, the first thing I want to say is…“mandate, my ass”.
Biden almost certainly won’t do anything like this.
Biden can’t do this. States have most of the control over how their elections run. For anything like this to be pushed by the Fed it would take a constitutional amendment which requires congress to approve followed by 2/3rds of states to ratify. Stop blaming administrations for not being criminal, it just grants the criminal administrations cover.
Slight correction: A costitutional amendment requires 2/3 majorities in both houses of congress, and ratification by 3/4 of state legislatures.
Thank you.
can’t is squishy here. Technically you’re probably right, but you think Turnip would let that stop him? Biden has about as much power as he is willing to fight for, which is pretty little, obviously, but IMO it tilts more “won’t” than “can’t”
Anything Biden does with a click of his fingers Trump could undo as easily. But that is irrelevant since this would be in violation of the constitution. Even the mega-dangerous “the supreme court said the president is king” argument doesn’t hold up because this breaks one of the 2 guardrails (must be constitutional) in their ruling.
Biden can do whatever he wants. As long as he thinks it’s a presidential duty… the Supreme Court made sure of that.
Even with the “broad immunity granted by the SCOTUS”, Biden can’t do what you want him to do. Immunity from prosecution does not mean ability to rewrite election laws.
Ambassadors are largely immune to prosecution too, do you think they can rerun our election?
Can we have an empty podium for president?
Empty Podium 2024!
Edit: Lol I was too caught up on my Empty Podium joke I forgot to even read your post, but your proposal is funny
So, what if Biden used broad immunity SCOTUS granted to declare a crisis of democracy
You know SCOTUS only said presidents and ex-presidents are immune from prosecution?
It doesn’t give the president any extra power, but just says “You can’t do that, but you don’t get in trouble if you tried.”
The president still have to find a yes-man in the government to do his bidding.
Biden doesn’t have any yes-men
And also SCOTUS can still later delare them “unofficial acts” so if Biden tries and fails to assassinate SCOTUS, he can actually end up in prison.
being immune from prosecution not being extra power, is for some a distinction without a difference.
Biden: Hey, it’s the POTUS. Your state needs to repeat the election. Make sure they use RCV, and I want you to tell the police to arrest nonvoters.
Governor: No.
Biden: But I’m immune from prosecution
Governor: Still no.
Biden: I’ll come down there and kill you with my bare hands!
Governor: I don’t think so.
Biden: I’ll send Seal Team Six to do it, and then pardon them!
Governor: They know you can’t pardon state murder charges.
Biden: You know immunity isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
Since this isn’t some super serious scenario I am trying to iron out all the details on at least use your imagination a little bit. Re-running the whole election? no, and not what I suggested. Re-running the presidential election, one ballot for a federal office, why do the states need to be involved much at all? I mean if we’re doing something drastic like this it isn’t like we would still use the electoral college system.
Presidential elections are run by states. They keep track of who is registered to vote, they run polling places, they print ballots, they own the machines that are used to cast and/or count votes, and every election worker ultimately reports to - and is paid by - their governor.
The president has no role, at all. He can’t hire election workers, can’t access polling places, can’t look at voter registries, and has no voting machines. Intentionally, to avoid schemes like yours.
So to extend the dialog:
Biden: Hey, I’m hiring people to rerun an election. I’ll pay you $10,000. Bring 699,999 of your friends, we gotta build a whole organization from scratch.
Passerby: Is that even in your budget?
Biden: Maybe. Maybe not. I’ll pay you $100,000! Also, order a voting machine on Amazon. I’ll reimburse you later.
Passerby: I’m never getting paid, am I?
Biden: Are you helping me or not? I’ll throw in $200,000 for your legal fees if you’re arrested for election fraud.
Passerby: No thanks.
Biden: But I got immunity, baby! Immunity!
Big difference.
That court ruling is more useful for republicans since democratic-leaning officials are less likely to do stuff like assassinating SCOTUS.
Meanwhile once trump gets into office, he’ll order the military to, say, shoot protestors on sight. Refuse? Fired. Next in line, same orders. Keep firing until you find someone. The military generallt leans right wing. Eventually he’ll find a Magat.
The map is cool, but the thing is everyone is too scared to do anything for fear of Trump’s rabid supporters becoming violent. Its very possible any challenge to these results sets off mass political violence or another Jan 6th. I’d love to do your suggestion but you aren’t ever getting everyone to vote until we have a week or two off to do it specifically.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but citizens don’t elect the president. This is one of the citizenship questions most naturally born citizens don’t know about.
Dude… everyone knows if the electors didn’t vote the way the election went, there’d be rioting.
Wrong, especially so in a post-truth information environment
