• traches@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    50
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    13 days ago

    Maybe I’m not that smart, but shouldn’t we blame the fascists and the people who voted for the fascists for the impending fascism?

    • eran_morad@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      13 days ago

      blame the whole fucking electorate. buncha fucking clowns pissed off because eggs cost $5 or some shit. the fuck is gonna happen when there’s tariffs on everything and no one working the fucking vegetable fields? what happens when the republicunts generate 8 trillion in new debt?

      the fuck is gonna happen to the price of eggs?

    • DiagnosedADHD@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      13 days ago

      Turnout didn’t change for Trump. In fact it was less than 2020. What happened was a repeat of 2016, this is the third time they put up an establishment candidate, when it’s been glaringly obvious Americans on the left and right are tired of that. The DNC is going to eat a lot of the blame this time–if not the majority, there are hardly any excuses this time.

      They’d rather have Trump than a non establishment candidate they can’t control.

    • octopus_inkOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      13 days ago

      There’s plenty of blame to go around. One thing a politician needs to do is effectively sell themselves to the people who will be voting. Harris spent a lot of time selling herself to Republicans.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/24/us/politics/kamala-harris-progressives-democrats.html

      The people who voted for the fascists were always going to vote for the fascists.

      I have no need or desire to argue with you about it. There is no end to people smarter and more eloquent than I who are explaining the exact same thing in more detail than I could, from Bernie Sanders to Rolling Stone.

      • Optional@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        13 days ago

        Harris spent a lot of time selling herself to Republicans.

        I disagree completely, but who can say. She refused to kiss a woman on stage, so maybe you’re right.

        • octopus_inkOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          13 days ago

          You don’t really have to take my word for it, there have been articles about her courting Republicans for weeks. You are free to disagree, but she very explicitly did do so. The article I linked in the comment you replied to gives specific examples, but your search engine of choice will find numerous articles listing the ways in which she did so, often with video. It’s not like it’s some tinfoil hat thing, it was her very obvious strategy.

    • JaggedRobotPubes@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      12 days ago

      This election has a remarkable ability to make people forget about the magic of Multiple Causes ™️

      But it’s of course overwhelmingly the nazis’ fault, yes.

    • GBU_28@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      13 days ago

      3 groups of eligible voters. Trump voters. Harris voters, and 3rd party/abstainers.

      Yes, the first group to be upset with are trump voters. But largely they arent here, so discussion and memes focus on the other group, the abstainers.

      • DomeGuy@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        13 days ago

        The phrasing I’ve settled on personally is “the only choices were Harris, Trump, or Either.”

        In a winner take all election, anything but a vote for the runner up is an endorsement of the winner.

    • UsernameHere@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      13 days ago

      Blame them and the fake leftists trying to pretend democrats lost for not being left enough. Both are responsible for the impending fascism.

      • Anamnesis@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        13 days ago

        Who was running the Democratic side of the race? Centrist democrats, or leftists? Maybe try blaming the people who had any kind of power, rather than those of us who were pointing out all along what a shitty campaign it was from the outside.

        • Optional@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          13 days ago

          You’re blaming the leftists for not controlling the Democratic Party?

          I guess? I still don’t know what leftist means here. Liberal is apparently an insult, no one admits to being a tankie, communists arent tankies, socialists are not anarchists who also aren’t leftists, and progressives apparently support genocide and hate trans people, I’m told? Neoliberal is - ? Corporate Democrats I think, or possibly nazis depending on what country you’re talking about.

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    44
    arrow-down
    11
    ·
    13 days ago

    You forget the last part of the trick:

    Double down, blame everyone else, go even further to the right. Then collect an even bigger check from billionaires

    The DNC doesn’t exist to get Dems in office, it’s only purpose these days is to make sure when the billionaires lose, they just win a little less then they would have.

    At this point there’s no other explanation for why they’re so fucking bad at getting a Dem elected.

  • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    27
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    13 days ago

    “Unpopular”? Wasn’t everyone stoked when Harris took over? Genuine question.

    • HuntressHimbo@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      39
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      13 days ago

      People were stoked when she stepped in for Biden, but that was largely a result of Biden’s unpopularity. Then she spent her campaign not building any distance between herself and him

      • Optional@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        13 days ago

        Bullshit. Not least of which was the alternative is horror.

        This isn’t anything close to what went “wrong”.

        Harris had very little to do with it. The DNC, I mean, yeah it’s on them, but that’s still not all of it.

        People are so goddamned stupid and confused, we’re gonna murder the planet because of it. That’s Harris’ fault? Fuck no.

        • HuntressHimbo@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          13 days ago

          You don’t need to tell me the alternative is horror, but Harris absolutely deserves a lot of blame in botching this campaign. She ran a campaign that had a lot of parrelels to Hillary’s, and brought out both Clintons at the convention. If you lose to Trump running a centrist campaign and taking unpopular positions in important swing States in a virtual repeat of 2016 and even bring the same people that lost in 2016 to be your campaign spokespeople you shouldn’t get to throw up your hands and act like you couldn’t do better.

          • Optional@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            13 days ago

            Sure, it was a total repeat. Bullshit.

            I don’t give a good goddamn if she went entirely underground and said absolutely nothing for the entire five months – there is zero excuse for not getting out and voting for her. ZERO.

            This hand-wavy “wasn’t progressive enough“ bullshit is exactly the same as the genocide Joe bullshit. Promoted by many of the same people who wanted her to lose and will now enjoy that lovely reality. They can shut the fuck up about it because they didn’t lift a goddamn finger to help then, and they’re just out for taking cheap shots now.

            Absolutely unironically, this is also the New York Times’ position.

            • HuntressHimbo@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              6
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              12 days ago

              I don’t think I’ve been clear enough, I did vote for her. She shouldn’t have lost, and she absolutely should be criticized for pushing so hard for voters who are conservatives. I’d rather we look at the strategic decisions being made at the highest level than try and find a demographic that didn’t vote hard enough to throw under the bus. Kamala, her campaign, and the media all failed us. If you think posters on Lemmy threw the election by not being enthusiastic enough, wait until you hear about the power and platform that Kamala and the media squandered this election.

    • jonne@infosec.pub
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      13 days ago

      People were happy she’s at least coherent, but she didn’t exactly impress when she ran in the 2020 primaries, in fact, there were some stories after the fact about how badly that campaign was run.

      • Kichae@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        13 days ago

        She would have won primaries this time around, though. While conservatives primarily believe in the “right people for the job” (where “right people” here is defined by the social hierarchy), liberals believe in the “right way to do things”. And the “right way” here would have been to give the VP her free pass at the general election.

        But it’s so clear that this campaign was run badly, too. They had all of the momentum coming out of the summer, and it just evaporated in September. You could feel it just as surely as you could feel the seasons change. It’s still blowing my mind how they managed to drown themselves.

        • jonne@infosec.pub
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          13 days ago

          There’s no telling who would’ve won a competitive primary, but the process would’ve allowed the eventual winner to distance themselves from Biden on the right things, have a program that would’ve actually appealed to voters, and picked their own team to run the campaign, and there would be buy-in from the Democratic base, instead of feeling like Harris was imposed on them.

          I don’t think she’s a bad candidate, but she made the mistake of listening to the wrong people that told her to run to the right and cosy up to millionaires, instead of building on the work Biden had done with unions and anti-trust, which was reasonably good for a neoliberal Democrat.

        • njm1314@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          11 days ago

          I don’t think she would have won a primary at all. I mean let’s say that some of the names of potential candidates had run in a primary against her. Does she beat Mark Kelly? Does she beat Gavin Newsom?Buttigieg? Klobuchar? Maybe the last two, although I certainly wouldn’t have voted for her over either of them. Newsom though? There’s no doubt in my mind that he would have beaten her.

          • AngryRobot@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            11 days ago

            The fucking primaries were over. What makes anyone think the states would just be happy to go through the hassle and expense of another primary election?

            • njm1314@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              11 days ago

              What does that have to do with anything? The other person said she would have won a primary if we had one. If you don’t want to accept the premise of the question why respond at all?

    • Kalkaline @leminal.space
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      13 days ago

      Harris was an improvement over Biden, she wasn’t Bernie or AOC, but miles ahead of Trump. I’d take Biden at this point, hell Biden with dementia would be better than what we got.

    • Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      13 days ago

      “Stoked” is definitely a word. “Mildly relieved but a little pissed” is a more accurate phrase.

    • DiagnosedADHD@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      13 days ago

      Stoked, lol. Relieved is more like it. Biden and Kamala were a fucking embarrassment for Democrats. The DNC annointed a geriatric and a wildly unpopular VP for 2020. It’s a fucking miracle they won.

    • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      13 days ago

      Then she started up with the “drill, baby, drill!” and the “build the wall!” and the “genocide is fine”…

    • octopus_inkOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      13 days ago

      Speaking only for myself - sure - until she abandoned all progressive stances and sprinted for the right, then allowed a Cheney (and other Republicans) to speak at the DNC while also refusing to give even a minute of podium time to anyone with a pro-Palestine viewpoint.

      She turned right the moment she announced the candidacy and just kept moving further and further, as if somehow 1) All D votes were in the bag so it didn’t matter if they were pissed and also 2) R was going to give any D candidate the time of day.

      Didn’t work out so well. It turns out that trying to become the watered down version of your opponent doesn’t win a lot of good favor among the folks who put you in that position in the first place.

    • jordanlund@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      13 days ago
    • Eldritch@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      13 days ago

      People were searching the day before the election to see if Biden was still in the race. Some people were stoked, far more stupid.

  • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    23
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    13 days ago

    The people going absolutely ballistic over pointing out the flaws of the Harris campaign are wild. If seeing someone criticize a politician makes you that upset, in all sincerity, log off. If you can’t differentiate criticizing a politician, campaign, and party from supporting their opponent, you have been sucked into an anxiety/rage spiral and you’re helping nobody, especially yourself.

    There is nothing useful in screaming at your allies because you don’t like seeing the post-mortem. And make no mistake, anyone who didn’t vote Trump is either your ally or someone you need to make your ally. Some Trump voters are even going to need to be your allies when they see and regret what they did.

    • Aye.
      People are upset, I get that, that’s perfectly fine to acknowledge one’s emotions.
      Now what?
      The next step is reflecting on the failure.

      That’s how you learn from errors, not just in elections, but literally anything. It’s certainly more useful than pretending everything was perfect and there’s nothing that could’ve went differently, that’s just defeatism.
      Criticizing and reflecting to be more self-aware of flaws and strengths, to grow.

      Then you can make new goals and strategies for the future and kick future’s butt.

    • Optional@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      13 days ago

      Right, right. We’re all terminally online and need to touch grass. In addition to being genociders, transphobes, colonialists, and corporate shills. I read that in the GRU manual too.

  • ChicoSuave@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    13 days ago

    Every time a Democrat loses, blue voters turn on each other and say that a lack of X or a policy change to Y would have won over the fence sitters in state Z. It’s exhausting folks.

    The party is driven by an oligarchy too, with multimillionaires as candidates and even a D governor who is a billionaire. Now that voting is done, please see the underlying argument for “both sides” - it isn’t their policy but the make up of the organization. D and R will never be progressive or interested in the issues affecting the broad majority of folks. Dems use the worst consultants and listen to “moderates” more than their dedicated but inactive voters. They are trying too hard to include Rs that don’t want them and it’s a bad look. The desperation undercuts any message about hope.

    It means the money is being spent in many wrong places for voters who will never be helpful. it means that even though D campaigns raised more money, it was frivolously wasted.

    The Democrats need Gen Z to take over the party and push for a culture shift, seeking optimistic policies that generate actual hope. Institutional inertia is killing any hope the left can find. Remember when Michael Bloomberg spent $500 million to derail Bernie’s campaign trail momentum which allowed Biden to win New Hampshire and become the presumptive nominee even though he had far fewer wins than Bernie? There are bad actors running things for the Dems and they are steering the party into ineffective effort each election.

  • Hacksaw@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    22
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    12 days ago

    This was a race between a B student and an orangutan throwing feces everywhere. We’re spending all our time talking about the questions the B student got wrong, but in the meantime we voted the orangutan as valedictorian and all he did was smear shit on the test and try to hump the microphone stand.

    No her mistakes aren’t the problem. The problem is we’re willing to elect a monkey to shit on everything and blame an average decent person for losing.

    Fuck…

    A class of kids would TOTALLY elect a monkey… We’re just old high schoolers… We’re so fucked…

    • tyo_ukko@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      12 days ago

      Well that’s the problem, innit? The orange shit heap will get a good chunk of votes from the idiots no matter what. So the other candidate needs to be an A grade to attract the rest of the votes, otherwise the pile of feces will win. At this point it’s obvious the diarrhea puddle can do whatever he wants and still get his share of votes, so asking why he can do and say whatever and get away with it is pointless.

        • tyo_ukko@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          10 days ago

          I don’t really believe this. Trump says a lot of stupid things to stay in the headlines, it makes his followers think the media is against him and nothing they say is true. Remember when he wanted to lock her up? Or build the wall.

          In saying that, I also have to say this is one of the biggest things I wouldn’t want to be wrong about.

  • uberfreeza@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    13
    ·
    12 days ago

    While it is true that voters absolutely should have turned out to vote for not-hitler over hitler, there are lessons that the dnc can learn from this. for example trump reaches normal, non-political people since conservatives go on talk shows like rogan and others and shows the “human” side of him. im not saying going on rogan would have saved the campaign, but democrats dont do any non-political talk shows until just before the election if they do any at all. As the surge in “did biden drop out” searches indicated, the electorate has no idea what the fuck is going on. if democrats want to reach the common person, they should go where the common person is. the undecided voters dont understand policy, so they vote for who they like more.

  • PunnyName@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    11
    arrow-down
    10
    ·
    13 days ago

    Hatred and racism didn’t win because the other party had an non-perfect policy.

    Hatred and racism won because not enough people cared to vote against it.

    You’re fucking complicit. And when you’re complicit with fascism, you’re also a fascist.

    • octopus_inkOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      13 days ago

      You’re fucking complicit.

      No my dude, I voted for her. I don’t agree with the decision from those who didn’t vote or voted elsewhere.

      But I understand. /ChrisRock

      • AnarchoSnowPlow@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        13 days ago

        That sentiment might be the one that pisses me off the most.

        I wanted her to win. I voted for her myself.

        I also saw how her campaign was fucking up constantly. Neutering Walz, embracing early 00s Republicans from Cheney to Frum, ceding all argument on immigration to the fascists…

        The list goes on and on.

        The Democrats had a billion dollars and all the goodwill in JULY. I’m so mad at them. The party needs to burn and something else needs to be rebuilt in its place.

        I am not interested in voting for the candidate of choice of Liz Cheney, Richard Spencer, and the Lincoln Project.

        • Optional@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          13 days ago

          It turns out to be difficult to do.

          That is if you’re not a demented sociopath backed by an armada of billionaire propagandists.

          But sure, letting Liz Cheney support her was bad too. I guess.

    • octopus_inkOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      13 days ago

      Sorry, I forgot I have to preface every criticism with “I voted for Harris, but”

      • Optional@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        13 days ago

        So did everyone else. Since we can’t make that a requirement, I guess we’ll just have to give them the benefit of the- heyyyyyyyy waitaminit!

    • octopus_inkOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      12 days ago

      Not me, Sir, I voted for her despite all my complaints.

  • ModestMeme@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    13 days ago

    Y’all had a choice between less-than-perfect & and straight up hatred. Your choice was to let hate reign. And now you’re gloating about it. So fuck you for that. And your quaint meme is the equivalent of smearing your own shit on the wall in a tepid little tantrum, complete with wrongly framed arguments. Go ahead and downvote me or write a pithy faux angry response. This is social media. It’s fucking meaningless. Voting had meaning. As do the mass deportations that are the cornerstone of Trump’s campaign promises. You petty fucks.

    • BluesF@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      13 days ago

      I agree with both you and the meme. You’re right that everyone should have sucked it up and voted for Kamala anyway. The meme is right because the Dems fucked this royally at several stages. Yes, American voters have made a decision that I massively disagree with… But you also have to recognise the vast political mistakes the party have made that led to this point.

    • UsernameHere@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      13 days ago

      Thank you. Republicans did all these things and won. These posts look like a narrative being pushed to divide us further.