Summary
Many Democrats, especially women, expressed disillusionment and frustration online, viewing the result as a reflection of deep-seated misogyny in the U.S.
Harris supporters highlighted anger that a “felony convicted, twice-impeached” Trump prevailed over a female candidate.
Comparisons to Hillary Clinton’s 2016 loss resurfaced, with many attributing Trump’s win to targeted appeals to young men, including appearances with influencers like Joe Rogan.
The election outcome has intensified concerns over growing right-wing radicalization among young men.
Not “just hates women” it also hates minorities of all kinds.
Honestly, I feel we have a huge disinformation problem. A war really where billionaires, Russia, Iran,and China are on one side and we’re on the other. They treat it like a war while we treat it like a small infestation. So many Republicans I speak with bring up reason why they support trump that are reasonable: Better economy, Protecting children, protecting rights, protecting jobs, reducing crime.in a vacuum, cool candidate. Except that many of the strategies he utilize to accomplish those goals seems illegal or unhelpful. Even worse, who cares if he could and would accomplish those goals, He tried to overthrow the government. Yet all the Republicans I know view that as untrue. Mainly in the form of, “I don’t hear about it much, so it’s either fake news,or not really a coup”
Why? Because they get their news from faux news and social media that have focused on keeping those negative aspects of him buried. And both of those things have huge reach.they are the eyes and ears of these voters, how can they not believe their eyes and ears that tell them that Trump is great?
Until that problem is dealt with, we can’t have an informed population that votes. Instead we will have a large group of uninformed voters. It’s not their fault, they’re just some of the first casualties in this disinformation war.
I saved a comment from u/allmhuran posted to r/news on 2016-06-24:
"Australia has had five prime ministers in five years, the poor yanks look as though they’ll have to choose between two options both of which have more disapproval than approval, and the UK leaves the EU. It seems like a ridiculous amount of instability. One might even call it absurd.
But it’s not surprising.
You can’t feed a society exaggeration, hyperbole and propaganda for over a decade, and then claim surprise when people don’t seem to be making rational decisions on the basis of well established truth.
There’s a cost associated with not telling the truth. There’s a cost associated with polarized, adversarial public discourse. There’s a cost associated with media more concerned with profits than the public interest.
It is, apparently, time to pay the piper."
There’s a cost associated with media more concerned with profits than the public interest.
Media: good thing we’re not the ones paying the price! Continue current heading, profits ho!
I think education is a factor here as well. People collectively seemed to have started just taking any sources word as objective truth with no rationalisation or justification. The fact we now have google forcing ai answers onto people that are factually wrong or unreliable and most just don’t question it is emblematic of the problem. People lack critical thinking now.
Very well stated. We need to operate within this reality instead of the fantasy land created by those who will be fine either way.
And what’s the suggestion here? I’m not getting it.
They aren’t suggesting anything. They’re saying we’re poisoned and it’s gone critical.
“So many Republicans I speak with bring up reason why they support trump that are reasonable: Better economy, Protecting children, protecting rights, protecting jobs, reducing crime”
Except Trump has done none of these things. These people are lying to you, and probably to themselves.
That’s the point I’m trying to make(but didn’t do well). Successful Media is telling Trump can, has and will do these things . If they’re told this repeatedly, with no other sane opinions, of course they will believe it. Worse still, they’re also told views to the contrary are completely false and should be disregarded
The worst part is all of those claims can be easily debunked, but not a one of them will ever believe it.
Unless that the large portion of americas population that thinks the ultra rich are awesome suddenly stops thinking that way then it’s gonna be a difficult battle.
Don’t take the word of a fascist at face value. They don’t argue in good faith. They are all racists and sexists, every single one. They’re just too cowardly to say it to your face.
Completely untrue. Their good intentioned. They just are given news from an alternate reality where Trump is not fascist, racist, and is so smart. When you don’t hear bad news on someone, how can you know their bad?
I’ve had conversations with 4 different people who just happened to go mask off in the last few days. Please stop believing liars.
That’s sad to hear. Not the people I know. Your experience isn’t a reflection of everybody else’s
Women should just fucking leave their Trump voting husband/boyfriend and should go no contact with their Trump loving fathers, brothers and sons. Seriously if the men don’t stand behind their women why should these women even support their men.
Go let them wallow in misery. And let them fight over the remaining nut job women who voted for Trump. The Trump male to Trump female ratio doesn’t favor these men in the dating scene.
These men who are meant to be protectors of the women in their lives have committed the ultimate betrayal of selling them out as slaves. What vile creatures. How could anyone stand to be in the same room as a man who did that to you. That would make me sick to my core.
They don’t value women enough to consider that a loss.
For them, all of the smart women shutting up or leaving is probably beneficial.
Genuinely curious, what about all the women that voted orange?
stockholm syndrome
Not really a thing:
4b baby
4B no babies.
Some will. Some can’t.
Theres always adding visine to your abusive husbands coffee
I actually concluded that and that the Democrats have no fucking clue who their fucken base is. Jfc. They should all just register as Republicans if they want to keep moving right like this.
Democrats don’t really have a base. It’s not progressives, if that’s what you’re thinking, we don’t have the numbers for that kind of sway. You can see this clearly in how many House seats we hold.
If there is any base to dems, its white collar suburban soccer moms. But it’s not actually that either, they’re just one of the biggest segments.
Exactly; “Democrats” are the party of the “not Republicans”. With how far right the Overton window has shifted, that covers a LOT of the political spectrum, much of which is in opposition.
And yet, the Overton window isn’t wide enough to fight a tiny slice of window, which is “far right fascists”
That’s the point; the different groups are just as likely to fight each other as the far right, which now has an entire party to itself.
Doesnt matter anymore. Have you seen what these lunatics have been saying as potential members of his cabinet and beyond? Anyone who voted Democrat is in danger at this point. The rise of the American Reich.
I’m certain thier base is whomever votes at this point. If the GOP dissappear tomorrow, I’m concerned they would start putting up nazi flags.
Harris didn’t move right! She supported expanding the child tax credit, legalizing marijuana, codifying Roe, etc.
She did campaign with Cheney, but didn’t endorse her or promise her a position of power or adopt any of her policy preferences. The whole point was to signal “Trump is so dangerous that even the most conservative leaders are setting aside their disagreements to support me.”
Moved right on the border.
Women, immigrants, racial minorities in general, LGBTQ people, muslims, the poor, themselves, it’s pretty much everyone at this point.
Lots of young women actually voted for Trump. Go figure: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/yes-trump-improved-young-men-drew-young-women-rcna179019
That’s what they mean by America hates women. It includes women too.
Saying women can’t be sexist is akin to saying black people can’t be racist. Of course they can, and I saw segments where they were interviewing Trump women at rallies and they were saying shit like women are too emotional to lead a country. It turns out people can hate themselves.
Internalised misogyny and all of that.
Wild.
I heard an interview with a woman who said she voted Republican because, on the one hand, abortion “isn’t that big of a deal” and ought to be left up to the states, but on the other, “doctors shouldn’t be allowed to abort babies after they’re born.”
So this person thinks that doctors are murdering babies… and that should be allowed on a state by state basis. Which… boy oh boy, I’m not sure what to even do with a mind that works that way.
Lol this mfer can make them into breeder slaves from Mad Max Fury Road and they’d just vote even harder for him next time.
It’s just joever, people prefer authoritarianism over freedom, even reproductive freedom or bodily autonomy, they are sheep that need to be led where to go and told what to think.
It’s really beyond time for this sort of disinformation to fuck off.
Harris lost because she’s a neoliberal, full stop. Scapegoating it as sexism means you learned fucking nothing and will only keep losing.
If you think sexism wasn’t a significant part of this, I don’t know what to tell you. Of course it was. Biden wasn’t better than her in any way and he won against Trump. Despite the fact that practically no one was excited to vote for him. It’s baffling you’re even questioning this.
Biden wasn’t better, Trump’s issues were just more in the forefront of people’s minds. They asked themselves “do I want more of this” and said no. Since then there have been rose colored glasses that make people think he was good for the economy and they’ve forgotten the chaos. And now the “do I want more of this” question is moving against the Democrats and a candidate that was reticent to truly separate herself from “this”.
Anyone who wasn’t fully aware that Trump is the worst candidate ever… Is
totoo(damnit) dumb to have made it to a polling station.They all wanted a rapist in the White House.
Is to dumb to have made it to a polling station
I agree with you, but can’t pass up calling out the irony here.
It’s funny, but my phone being shit to type on isn’t ironic.
Not really what happened. Trump kept basically the same voters. As has been pointed out 5000 times, this election was lost because millions of Democratic voters stayed home. One of the primary reasons, which is slapping us in the face, is her gender. There simply isn’t a world where sexism exists where this wouldn’t have played a not-small role.
Whether sexism was an important part of it or not isn’t the point.
The point is that if we allow that statement to pass unchallenged, it will take over the narrative, none of the necessary reforms will happen, and the world will continue to get worse.
Right we can only talk about one thing. Fair.
We can talk about the one thing that’s important, or we can talk about mostly-irrelevant bullshit that not only fails to solve the problem, but actively works against solving it by serving as a distraction. I mean, if you just fucking love failure and losing for some reason, I guess you could do the latter, but why?
Absurd
Any sane adult should have beat Trump. He won because 72 million Americans want fascism.
no, he won because 20 million Americans played chicken in Americas only car and we fucking lost.
I kinda think the 73 million who voted R might be the bigger problem here.
they are a problem, but terrible people will be terrible and nothing will change that.
20 million voters figuratively said, “no, fuck you we want nothing to do with this system.” even though they are literally a part of the system.
it’s like negotiating with a toddler. ˢᵐᵃˡˡ world view with BIG ambitions.
Half of the reason government exists is to stop terrible people from being terrible. Religion is supposed to reign in the terrible people too, American Evangelicalism just creates terrible people.
yeah… Government exists to control the society. They say the government is the will of the people, but that’s been a lie historically for many, many, many years.
Religion is the antithesis of government. Religion is meant to control the will of the people. to direct it and hone it to a fine point.
Historically, if you look at the impact that religion had on systems of government, you can see that there’s definitely a negative impact where one becomes weaker.
The point being, both systems of government and religion are tools in which to control the fate of man. The reason why American Evangelicalism creates terrible people is because there are terrible people leading American Evangelicals.
And the reason why the American system of government supports terrible people is because it was modified to support terrible people. The same terrible people leading American evangelicals.
If we had any hope in making impactful change, it would have started with education.
Now, my fear is it’s too late for education. And what comes next will be horrific.
I think we definitely are in agreement here. My one quibble is I don’t know that religion is the antithesis of government so much as a more primitive form of government. The earliest religions were a form of law enforcement in world without police or judicial systems.
If it’s just you and someone else alone in the wilderness, why shouldn’t you just kill them and take their stuff? There are no consequences. Religion adds the consequences. “God will punish you. You’ll burn in Hell/Hades/Tartarus.” Why shouldn’t I steal? “It’s a sin.” Why shouldn’t I sleep with my neighbors wife? “It’s bad karma.” It’s all just laws enforced by a mythological father figure instead of a real guy with a gun.
Once all the smart, wealthy, moral, and ethical people flee the US that can flee the US do flee the US I’ll finally be able to get a job!
Completely agree, but I’ve been seeing so many similar sentiments on Lemmy since the election. Today I saw someone comment, almost word for word, that there was no problem with Kamala’s campaign - the issue was simply that Americans are too stupid. Someone else on a totally different post commented that this election proves the Dems could run Jesus Christ himself and half the country would still reject him. And those are just two examples. This is one of more unhinged meltdowns I’ve ever seen.
Dems could run Jesus Christ himself and half the country would still reject him
I mean, that is undeniably true, but we’ve known that for a lot longer than two days.
Dems would never run Jesus Christ because they only run sellout genocidal cartoon villains
GeNoCiDe
I get the anger from dems against those who didn’t vote but honestly that’s more on the democratic party for not putting forward a candidate that earned those votes than anything else. Neither candidate is “entitled” to votes, just because the other candidate is abhorrent. I do think things will get considerably worse now and that’ll hopefully teach those who didn’t vote that yes that can happen and they should vote but the decision not to isn’t on the electorate, it’s the party that felt like they deserved votes they didn’t earn.
Dem party has no obligation to court voters that won’t show up. Dems should not even bother with that segment ever again. This is why Dems were trying to convert more centrist republicans that do know how to show up and vote.
That’s stupid. People won’t show up tp vote for a party that doesn’t represent their values and the dems aren’t just entitled to votes because trump is the opponent. You can’t win an election on just “the other guy is worse”. You need policies that galvanise your voter base and actually makes a difference in their lives so they don’t feel voting for either party is a waste of time. Objectively trump is worse but it’s on the dems to convince the voters of that and they failed horribly.
Sure, go ask the average turnip voter if her neoliberal stances were why they voted for the rapist, 34 time convicted felon who cages children, is literally traded on the stock market and has nothing but praise for dictators, in fact who expressed his desire to be one multiple times on the campaign trail.
You folks are so desperate to not blame the majority of people who chose to either vote for that, or were at least comfortable with him as their leader.
Anything except blaming her policies because those conservative policies come with a shit ton in donations…
Yup. Sadly, we can’t run some robust experiments, but I’m pretty sure Warren would have outperformed Harris by a mile.
God I hope the DNC’s fucking takeaway isn’t “must only run neoliberal men”.
I looked back over the 2020 primary data and Kamala dropped before she even got to the first vote, Warren continued to pull small groups of delegates after super tuesday. In a very real sense Elizabeth Warren beat the pants off Kamala in terms of the primary. I was really pushing for her early in 2020 because I felt she was a consensus candidate between the further left Bernie types and the centrist Buttigieg types.
She’s even wonkier than Harris and wouldn’t have connected with voters as well.
Don’t get me wrong, she’s an amazing Senator. But what makes you good at governing isn’t what makes you good in a campaign.
She was (briefly) leading the race at one point and packing large speaking venues. She had four hour lines of people waiting to get a picture with her. Wonkier doesn’t equal “unable to connect with voters”.
I’m pretty sure Warren would have outperformed Harris by a mile.
What makes you so sure? The fact that Warren lost in the 2020 primary by giant amounts? 😆
Bernie was right in 2020. America isn’t ready to elect a female president.
More than one thing can be true. And they obviously were in this case.
Misogyny is an easy excuse that doesn’t question the effectiveness of any of the politicians or consultants involved in the race. People forget that Biden only barely won what should have been an easy race. Now the difference between losing and barely winning is a big deal, but they all ran pretty similar campaigns trying to get the “good Republicans” while neglecting their base. Maybe Biden’s shriveled dick was the difference to get him to barely squeak past Trump while a woman wouldn’t, but none of these races should have been close. There’s a much bigger problem at play than “just don’t run women because too sexist”.
I’m with you. Some of the simplicity of this is what’s going to keep these cycles going.
He won by more than she lost by. It’s not an excuse, it’s just a part of the equation that cannot be ignored.
And? It’s been 4 years and a lot of factors have changed. If kamala didn’t engage with those 20 mil who felt Biden made promises he didn’t deliver and kamala has no plans to change anything then that could explain it. Blaming this purely on gender without any justification is just careless. Although I’m pretty sure the dems will see this as “women can’t win” rather than “we’re deeply out of touch and need real reform”.
No one said “purely” that’s ridiculous to begin with but also I chose my words carefully. seems like some of you really don’t want to face this for some reason
In a win as close as his, that’s not saying anything particularly significant. Biden’s win was what, 80,000 votes or so?
…if we are talking popular vote, hell no, it was several million, more than 5, which is what she lost by. If you don’t even remember this basic fact about it, why the hell make any argument at all?
He didn’t win by 5 million. Running up the numbers in California doesn’t win you the White House. He won in a few swing states by nail-biting margins.
Ok insist on comparing unlike things then. It doesn’t matter at all anyhow, if you look at the EC she lost the election by a country mile.
Not defending bidens record here but are you really dissing an 81 yo dick? You think anyone has a girthy hog at 81?
Arnold Palmer maybe.
Also, is this post serious? Because I’m assuming someone taking offense about colorful language about an old man’s penis can’t possibly be so, but it’s being played very straight that this is a real thing worthy of conversation.
Huh? I just think it’s weird to bring up as like, a burn.
We’re a mile down in a Lemmy thread, nothing here is serious.
Removed by mod
Oh, you’re the person who thinks I like Jill Stein for some reason. You’re clueless.
I guess you just carried water for her to spite the DNC, then?
Gotta distance yourself now.
You could literally just look in my history for “Jill Stein”, but you’re a blowhard who doesn’t do self-reflection. I already told you this, but just go on being aggressively ignorant.
It’s not “just” that, but it was the deciding factor that made this all moot from the start.
The people who voted for trump are, in their DNA, at their core, bigoted cowards that wouldn’t have been swayed by anything else - She has a vagina and she’s black - That’s all it was ever going to be.
" I was this close, Bill… I just wanted more policy details… More time… If only they didn’t make me vote for trump".
The people who voted for trump are, in their DNA, at their core, bigoted cowards that wouldn’t have been swayed by anything else - She has a vagina and she’s black - That’s all it was ever going to be.
" I was this close, Bill… I just wanted more policy details… More time… If only they didn’t make me vote for trump".
My Trump-supporting mother, mother-in-law, father-in-law, sister-in-law and sister would all cite “abortion is murder” and “criminal illegals” bullshit before Harris’ vagina or skin ever came into it.
I almost wish the Dems had run Biden despite his terrible debate performance so that people wouldn’t blame the Dems losing on Harris’ vagina and skin color instead of her terrible campaign.
Trump did about as well as he did in 2020, that Harris lost is because she did worse than Biden did in 2020. Fear of Trump wasn’t as fresh to animate the base and she only really courted moderate republicans and middle class white women in the latter stages of her (short) campaign and that hurt turnout and turnout is the most important thing for Dems.
Trump voters are misogynistic assholes, that’s a given, and pay off the reason the Dems shouldn’t have been trying to get them… But it’s not like a bunch of people who voted for Joe went and voted for Trump… He didn’t get more votes this time. Millions of Biden voters just didn’t show up… And I don’t believe for a second that they didn’t show up because they just didn’t want to vote for a woman
It does suck that this country has so many misogynists… But they are a known factor and can/should have been planned for… that’s not what cost Dems this election
Much of America hates much more than just women, but women have got to be at or near the top of the list.
“Republicans hate women.” Plain and simple. Saw it on a t-shirt and just had to have it. God bless the truth coming out💙
Devastated world gets confirmation of American misogyny above freedom and safety.
People always go with the excuse that coincidentally makes them least responsible, unless they win and then it’s 100% all them.
