Context

The main arguments for people to defederate are

  • “Embrace, extend, and extinguish” strategy: https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
  • A potential federation with Threads (should Thread decide to implement it) would overwhelm Lemmy/Mbin/Piefed with millions of users (compared to the 40k monthly current active users), transforming those platforms into a threaded version of Facebook
  • Defederating preventively costs nothing
  • Five@slrpnk.netEnglish
    16·
    6 hours ago

    Threads.net federation status on major Lemmy instances based on blocklist info:

    Also, in memoriam:

    • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      42 minutes ago

      The best if you don’t have to. If you thought Twitter’s nonexistent moderation was bad, then get ready for Meta’s moderation.

      People can post trans suicide memes, people can post outright hate speech, no action. Call a “moderate conservative” a “mean person”, racist, etc., action within 24 hours, multiple-day ban.

      • Scott M. Stolz@authorship.studio
        1·
        25 minutes ago

        @ZILtoid1991

        If you thought Twitter’s nonexistent moderation was bad, then get ready for Meta’s moderation.

        To be fair, there is no global moderation on the fediverse. Anyone can start up their own instance with their own rules, or lack thereof. But that is also a plus since you or your server administrator decide how to moderate content, rather than depending on the decisions of some mega company’s moderation team.

      • snooggums@lemmy.worldEnglish
        331·
        9 hours ago

        One concern is that since threads has a massive userbase and similar volume of content, it is basically a full reservoir and when it starts to federate content it will be like the dam bursting. Even if there is a need for a user on lemmy.world to do something to start federating content, like subscribing to communities, but all it would take is a bot that subscribes to a bunch of popular content to both fill the All feed and prompt a massive number of API calls.

        If the hardware is up to the task, the other concern is the threads content overwhelming existing communities, and since a bunch of meta content is bot driven and malicious that would be a crazy amount of moderation that is likely needed to keep it from causing issues and driving away the existing userbase.

      • ComradeSharkfuckerEnglish
        231·
        9 hours ago

        Lemmy is niche and therefore is heavily populated by techies but more specifically lemmy is open source so these techies are specifically the type who like open source stuff. Threads and the corporation responsible for it have a financial incentive to oppose open source projects like this. So the community most ideologically tied to lemmy want nothing to do with it. They want to preserve their space that they have made as free of the influences of capital as possible. The very existence of threads is a threat.

  • Fitik@fedia.io
    7·
    8 hours ago

    Thread does not currently federate with link aggregators (Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed)

    It federates with MBin, recently Fedia defederated Threads, but before that I could follow and interact with Threads accounts, and it actually worked

    • pelespirit@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      9·
      9 hours ago

      I have 2 possible theories on that:

      1. They want the federation to be all encompassing. Like a giant forum for corporations, governments and the common people. Sort of like a FOSS mall with a post office, community center and library included.

      2. They’re ran and/or owned ultimately by a Reddit or Threads type company.

      • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
        7·
        8 hours ago

        Someday I will write my master list of unfounded Fediverse conspiracy theories.

        I was going to say that I didn’t have one for lemmy.world, so that would be a good addition, but I realized that I do: LW is being run by the Russians, as a cheap way to get a solid foothold over a new sector of social media, and that’s why there was that moment in time where Youtube was giving out Russian-language descriptions for all the videos that got posted to LW.

        I have no evidence and it seems hilariously unlikely, but so does “Our Dutch sysadmin decided to host the server in Finland of all places, and then on top of that, Google decided to start handing out Russian-language descriptions when people accessed Youtube from Finland. And then, as soon as we found out about it, Google suddenly fixed it for us.”

        My theory would also explain why the admin team makes certain perplexing decisions like pushing so hard to make a safe space for the disinfo accounts and then forbidding anyone from calling them out.

          • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
            2·
            8 hours ago

            Practically the same country. I’m sure they share a ton of the same BGP routes, too, so it would be an incredibly easy thing to get crossed up on, when Google is doing their geolocation logic.

        • pelespirit@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          1·
          8 hours ago

          One of the admins shadow deletes comments. I called it out and was semi banned? Sometimes things go through and sometimes they don’t when I comment there by accident. Idk, I like a lot of the communities on there. I just don’t partake except for upvotes and downvotes.

          Also, it’s a decent theory.

          • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
            3·
            8 hours ago

            That’s very interesting. Can you DM me some examples?

            I’ve been seeing some strange failures in my own posts there just recently, but I assumed it was perfectly legitimate federation weirdness, which happens sometimes. I didn’t give it a second thought.

            • pelespirit@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              2·
              8 hours ago

              It was in my Reddit PTSD days and I just rage quit. I deleted all of my posts and comments for the first few pages, lol. I think it was the reddit community, but it might have been the lemmyworld issues community. I thought it might be fediverse weirdness as well, but it was there and then went away a day later. That’s not how the weirdness works from my experience. I asked him why and he had a cocky answer like reddit admins of old so I rage quit. Which is funny now, it only hurt myself since I miss a lot of those communities. Their 3d printer community is fantastic.

              I saw the admin get called out for it a month or so ago and the leader said that he “does too much for the community” to let go and to email them if you have any issues. That’s the ultimate reddit, meta, x, etc., move to me so I just ignored it. That dude is their fixer imo.

      • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
        1·
        7 hours ago

        It’s made with Mermaid.

        If you mean what decision process is behind it, or what the point is, I couldn’t tell you. It just looks weird and alarming to me.

        There’s no money. And it’s not the right way to build a strong and successful community. So why, then, are they doing things in this fashion? The longer you look, the weirder it gets.

        • ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝@feddit.ukMEnglish
          2·
          6 hours ago

          It just looks weird and alarming to me.

          It looks like we haven’t put enough effort into naming things here, at least to me.

          Tech Team Spiffy

          May need work.

          • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
            2·
            6 hours ago

            At the end of the day, any team that’s trying to accomplish a technological task needs:

            • Sysop
            • Genius
            • Head Slapper
            • Business Guy

            As long as you’ve got those four roles covered, you’re probably good. You can have other people assisting, but if any of those isn’t covered, you’re in trouble.

            It looks to me like LW has the first one covered and none of the other three. Their system administration team, whatever else is going on with the place, is killing it.

              • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
                2·
                6 hours ago

                Yes, although it’s usually safer to let one person specialize in each. If you try to cross the streams, you can introduce instability. Your head-slapping genius can turn into a megalomaniac over time and drive everyone off the project. Your genius business guy can turn out to be an absolute loony, and persuade everyone to work on a project that makes no sense and will never work. It’s better if everyone picks a lane.

  • ryathal@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    57·
    3 hours ago

    The threads hate is so fucking stupid. Companies getting involved with Lemmy would be awesome, mostly because it’s a replacement for discord. The whole EEE thing is FUD, open source largely solved that problem. The people with control aren’t just going to give Meta they keys anyway. Some corporate involvement could help solve some real issues with making hosting easier, reducing storage needs, and increasing federation throughput.

    Corporate instances would be awesome to add to my feed for the things I want to see and it would be a way to attract people to get the more niche communities. The tools already exist for the people who don’t want to see that content. If for example steam community discussions became Lemmy communities that would be a huge win for the platform.

    Also threads isn’t even the same federation model as Lemmy anyway and it’s unlikely to ever actually federate to here anyway.

    • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      2·
      36 minutes ago

      Threads hate isn’t stupid. Consider for a moment the literally dozens of people online without FB or Insta accounts. That is a choice. It’s nice to have somewhere that doesn’t have those users, with that groomed content, pumped for profit. Meta exists to make money - the Zuckdroid wants a finger in the fediverse pie to maximise profit for the share holders; not because he’s gone all in and techno-philanthropy. Having said that, the dilution of quality and nuance his user base “could” bring is the real worry though.

  • Sunshine @lemmy.caEnglish
    102·
    9 hours ago

    We gotta avoid meta collecting data on the users of the fediverse.

    • xigoi@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
      1·
      2 hours ago

      Oh no, imagine someone being able to see data that you publicly posted on the internet!

    • ReversalHatchery@beehaw.orgEnglish
      4·
      7 hours ago

      Question if that’s possible, especially if they really start a search engine, but yeah at least do not hand over the data on a golden plate

  • kryptonidas@lemmings.worldEnglish
    4·
    9 hours ago

    Dang it I was on lemmy.wtf and that one has been down for days now. Now you’re telling me this one will get flooded with “tweets”? Do I have to pack up my shit again? We’ll see how bad it will get.

    Edit: it’s up again. It is too unreliable though.

  • hOrni@lemmy.worldEnglish
    74·
    9 hours ago

    A great reminder, that I will never understand how this site works. Isn’t lemmy.world like the main page? That’s what shows up on my Sync app.

    • gila@lemm.eeEnglish
      231·
      9 hours ago

      Lemmy is like email, and lemmy.world is like your email provider. Sync is like Outlook

    • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.socialEnglish
      11·
      9 hours ago

      No, .world is not anything like a ‘main page’. It’s just the largest “instance”.

      Lemmy isn’t even really a site, it’s more like what email is - a data exchange protocol.

      You see mostly .world content because you share that domain, and they’ve “blocked” a lot of other domains.

      You can make an account at any-other instance and see a lot of other content. Lemmy.world has “blocked” (defederated) with a lot of instances, so you’re not seeing everything.

      Sync is just an app that lets you view your account content (similar to how gmail the app lets you view your email content).

      • Ardyssian@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        6·
        8 hours ago

        So if lemmy.world has defederated with many other instances, would that mean that clicking ‘All’ in the example provided won’t show content from those instances if your account comes from lemmy.world?

    • Blaze (he/him)@feddit.orgOPEnglish
      10·
      9 hours ago

      Different websites show the same content.

      https://lemm.ee/c/fediverse@lemmy.world shows the community we are in from another instance, Lemm.ee.

      There is no “main page”, different instances host different communities and users, but everything is still connected by default (sometimes instance disagree and prefer to block each other)

    • fjordbasa@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      4 hours ago

      Lemmy.world is one of many lemmy instances. Any Lemmy instance will show posts on their “all” page from instances they’re federated with. Generally, you can subscribe to and comment in federated communities.

      Depending on your viewer/app, you’ll see the instance following an @ sign. For example, username johndoe1234@sh.itjust.works means that account is on the sh.itjust.works instance. Similar for communities.

      May have missed some finer points but that’s generally how it works.

    • can@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      3·
      7 hours ago

      It’s the biggest instance, and the one you signed* up at, so in essence, for you it is. However the content you see there will be made up of not only users and communities from Lemmy.world but also from all the instance they’re federated with. I’m registered elsewhere but you’ll still get this reply.

      Edit: i.e. I also use Sync but it says sh.itjust.works