- cross-posted to:
- aiop@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- aiop@lemmy.world
‘I think the bigger problem are the people from within, we have some very bad people, sick people, radical left lunatics,’ Republican candidate tells Fox’s Maria Bartiromo
…
“And it should be easily handled by, if necessary, by National Guard, or if really necessary, by the military,” he said.
“I think the bigger problem is the enemy from within. Not even the people who have come in, who are destroying our country.”
It isn’t clear under what circumstances Trump would view it justifiable to call in US troops against his own countrymen.
But his comments mark a baseless attack and a particularly hollow one coming from someone whose supporters violently attacked the US Capitol in an attempt to stop him from being thrown out of office three years ago.
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“dictator day one”
“prosecute my opposition”
“prosecute my critics”
It seems insane to think people are shooting at him because they’re listening to democrats (something the MSM largely does not do) and not because people are just listening to the things he’s saying he’ll do.
He is trying to sway the “white supremacists in the military” vote.
“I think the bigger problem are the people from within, we have some very bad people, sick people, radical
leftlunatics."Yeah Don, we know. They even wear a red hat to help identify themselves.
Ok, then, so if they try another January 6 we’re authorized to go all Tienanmen of MAGAs asses?
No
I mean, it’s just fair. An eye for an eye.
I wouldn’t want to make martyrs out of them, which is what that would do.
Instead, have a significant law enforcement presence on standby, and if things go that way, call them in, and round up every single one of them, in the moment, and put them all in jail, pending prosecution.
Speedy trial, sure, but another event like that will easily take months for investigators to sort out all the details and build the state’s case against them. Meanwhile, they’re all sitting in cells, losing their jobs, falling behind on rent and payments, having things repossessed, bringing shame and embarrassment to their families, and just so the state can’t be accused of any sneaky legal maneuvers, their names and faces are to be plastered all over the media.
And bring reasonable charges, no plea deals or consideration of good behavior or lack of prior issues. When these people come out the other end of their sentences (years from now) make sure they have a nice felony conviction dogging any attempts to get their lives back on track for the next decade or three.
Make their actions and the consequences truly hurt. For them and their families. Make the spouses and children feel the pain, create resentment toward their flawed ideology that will last for a generation. And again, make it public. If these idiots want to overthrow our government, they don’t get to slink back into the shadows of whatever armpit they crawled out of for the next 4 years. Let the media hound them, cameras in the street in front of the house, investigative reporters digging up embarrassing details of how they lost their jobs, the whole nine yards. Make their lives suck bad enough that the neighbor’s wife starts telling her husband, “You can be pro-Trump all you like, but so help me, if you bring that shit storm to our family, I will divorce you and take the kids somewhere safe so fast your head will spin!”
In short, don’t make martyrs out of them, make examples out of them.
So that’s how he plans to make the economy better, to force his opposition to leave the country and appropriate their wealth and property. Who did Nazi that coming?
Oh hey, treason man is yet again announcing publicly that he’s a treasonous piece of shit and that he plans to continue committing treason? Wow, what shocking news. /s
Why wouldn’t he continue? It’s not like there’s ever any consequences for him.
But I don’t like treason!
This rhetoric is meant for voter intimidation because they know Republicans always lose when Democrats turn out to vote.
The polls are meaningless because they could be manipulated or manufactured, we don’t know who’s being polled. People just need to cast their vote and not let this be a close election.
I will never express my opinions in places where I can be easily identified unless I am among people I know and trust. I will vote and keep my leftist ideology to myself amongst strangers irl. I rather like living without being bothered.
There’s no such thing as living without being bothered in an autocratic regime, doesn’t matter who you are. You could be the most ardent supporter and you’d still be shit out of luck for any reason. Stalin used to have his own cabinet members routinely disposed of
I meant being bothered as in strangers harassing me for my beliefs lol. I live in a grossly red part of my state and I keep a low profile out of what I feel is necessity
I do too but idgaf and start shit with anyone stupid enough to try with me. I made the religious sign holders leave Pride fest by simply talking absolute fucking nonsense with adamant of a mood. They left shortly thereafter. I was a volunteer for the event wearing the shirt and all.
I had a sign in my yard that said “support trans kids” someone peeled into my driveway, leaving huge ruts in the gravel/mud, and stole the sign one day when I wasn’t home. That’s when I decided to not voice my opinion openly like that anymore.
Soldiers are not obligated to follow unlawful orders…the brass will say “no”.
Unfortunately people as a whole tend to follow orders regardless of their political party or legality. It’s been studied and observed all throughout history
The officers already told Trump no. And when the National Guard was deployed for BLM protests they actually stuck to their ROE and didn’t deploy force recklessly like the police. Even when the police tried to get the NG in trouble with the people by dressing like them and then telling the NG they might as well.
If the NG was ordered to show up at the polls they would most likely sit in a position a couple hundred meters away where most people won’t see them but they’d be able to respond rapidly. They’d force the governor to be more and more explicit in their orders until they got to an actually illegal one. For example if the NG has been called for law and order they would be under the same restrictions as the police in regards to polling places. (In many states police aren’t allowed to hang out there, they have to vote and leave unless someone specifically calls them and faking a call to get them there could count as election interference.)
I know it’s hard to understand the military mindset from the outside looking in, but I guarantee you it’s not the robotic machine that Hollywood portrays. They are very conscious of their responsibility to the people.
You don’t think Trump will find people to do the job for him? Do you remember them black bagging and abducting people off the street in Portland during BLM? While the NG’s performance was commendable during that turbulent time, I wouldn’t rely on that fact staying true. Also I’m a vet and at least when I was in when we were given orders we weren’t told why we were doing them or given any context for them so in the heat of the moment that’s all you’re going to have to go off of.
This is at a level far above where we dwelled. It’s the guys with stars on their shoulders shielding the troops. And you’re correct, Trump did find willing lackeys, but he found them in Federal Law Enforcement. Most of them came from the Bureau of Prisons. He can’t openly recruit among the military the way he can among federal agents. So I’m pretty sure what will really happen, if he’s elected, is he’ll stand up that group of agents again, equip them heavily and just call them soldiers.
Which is actually straight out of the dictator’s handbook.
Its not as simple as that though, e.g. that electro shock experiment was rather shaky and subsiquent attempts to replicate it have all but falsified its results.
What you have to do is cherry pick the small group of people that are willing to do awful things, you then get them to do those things in presence of the saner people who then feel guilty by association. After that you can use their lack of action to stop this awful thing as blackmail/guilttrip to get them to do some small awful thing of their own, and then repeat that process to get them to do increasingly awful things until everyone is just as bad as what was originally just a very small subset of that group. Importantly even though they’re doing awful things they still feel bad about it but they’re in too deep, this makes them even more effective than your original psychopaths because they know how they’re likely to be punished should your side loose which makes them fanatical in order to avoid punishment.
Its a tried and tested process but not quite as simple as people just following orders.
We have innocent men being lawfully executed by the state in the current year. How many people in total were involved in those processes without a single one standing up for justice? Our current “liberal” presidential administration hasn’t uttered a single word in opposition to their murders
How much support is there for Trump in the military though?
I’m worried about the possibility that this kind of rhetoric could lead to an attempted coup or civil war.
They lean conservative but not Trump. They voted blue in 2020 because the conservatives didn’t really come out to vote for him. They also have very complicated feelings about the Constitution and targeting Americans. So they probably would refrain from getting involved in anything but the most egregious conduct, like the Jan 6th insurrection, until we’re so far down the hole they can’t maintain unit integrity between left and right. At that point you’d probably see about a 60/40 split.
Really depends. In general officers tend to be mixed bag while enlisted soldiers tend to lean Trump.
But it also depends the branch. In my experience most Marines tend to support Trump while the Navy and Airforce is more mixed.
I’m sure you can get some statistics if you look it up. But it’s pretty certain the military leans more conservative than the general population on average.
Our two party system has been in a civil war over control of us slaves for decades. .
Spoken like a person who had no idea what slavery is .
Til they don’t
Just cause the big guy called Trump a fascist doesnt mean there arent plenty of supporters down the chain of command.
Is it at all possible that the “radical leftist” he is referring to are ones that would potentially react violently to him becoming president? Such as the 2 that have already acted violently by him running as president?
None were leftist, and only one got as far as violence.
Yeah that’s fair then, 99.99999+% of leftist don’t support assassination. Trump is blowing it out of proportion.
But there are violent radicals inside the homeland, that are Americans. So he has a point somewhat.
Of the left and the right 99 out of 100 terrorist attacks in the last 2 decades were by far right extremists.
Yeah that’s a fair point. I looked into it a bit more, right-wing extremists have sharply increased since Jan 6th, so there is a concern there. It isn’t 99/100 though.
Still high, like 90/100<EDIT> Maggoty got some data, real number for violent terrorist attacks by political ideology is 85% far right to 8% far left. Or rather, 58% far right, 8% far left, 27% Islamist </EDIT>For anyone interested in the stats, this is taken from the Profiles of Individual Radicalization in the United States (PIRUS) dataset at start.umd.edu
That includes literally any ideologically motivated crime. Protesting in the street is an ideologically motivated crime. It includes people who are just associated with extremist groups. So if your brother joins a group, congratulations, this graph represents you.
This is not what anyone is talking about when they say “terrorist attacks”. And neither is releasing the cows, or egging an elected official, or handcuffing yourself to a building. This is as disingenuous as it gets.
Kicking around their Keshif tool quickly reveals that the Far right makes up 57% of all violent ideological crimes since ~1950. The far left makes up 10%.
Using filters for mass casualty crimes, intended and successful, since 2000, reveals 58% Far Right, 8% Far left, and 27% Islamist. Islamists are also Far right, we just separate them in America for obvious reasons. So you get 85% and 8% in straight up far fight vs far left since 2000.
So yeah not quite 99/100 but definitely a majority, especially recently. And I agree its very concerning that domestic terrorists are usually far-right. It is something I’ll bring up in the future to Trumpists, I honestly don’t know what their reaction to this info would be, but I hope it causes some kind of change.
Grouping Islamists with domestic right-wing is a bit odd, but I get your point. I doubt they would vote for Trump. Trump would also absolutely deploy the national guard and army against Islamic extremists, even if they were “right-wing” technically.
I could potentially see an argument that Islamists would be leftist in an American context, since their main opponent was the Bush and Republican administration, but that is also a stretch.
58% Far Right, 8% Far left, and 27% Islamist
Seems the most descriptive. Thanks for the info and stats
No problem, most of these groups use the most inclusive dataset they can get away with because it helps with funding. But they usually also maintain a data tool that lets you find what you need fairly quickly. And I agree that Trump far right would fight Islamic far right, but they are both still far right ideologies. We separate them in data because of base assumptions from the 20 years of wars in the middle east.
Yeah, you see! Both sides! /s
He rambled on about immigrants at a rally and said election day will be our Liberation Day. Sounds like mass deportation and mass killing of liberals to me.
I should have been doing it regardless, but this past weekend I started hitting the shooting range again.
And polls continue to call the race a tie.
At some point we have to acknowledge that roughly 30% of our population are just evil, fascist monsters. Having lived in those states, this isn’t a surprise.
I’d say 20% are just absolute morons that watched ancient aliens and garbage like that back in the day then fell for every dumbass psyop conspiracy theory on the Internet. Now they are willfully ignorant of facts and truth.
Ughh you described my dad, except he’s still watching shit like that and skinwalker ranch… And yes he’s a full blown Magoo. :(
i don’t think it matters what their problem is. the solution is just to remove their ability to have a say in democracy.
Some of them are just country bumpkins who vote for whoever their pastor says
We need to find those churches then and report them to the IRS no?
And the problem is that a county of 1000 dipshit rednecks like that have as much voting power as a major metropolitan area.
exactly. we have to stop them from voting. i don’t care how it gets done, but we really don’t have a choice. they have to be stopped.
I’m quite certain what you need to do is get every one else voting. That’s kind of how the whole thing is supposed to work.
good luck with either.
Still counts
Still counts more in fact. Our system is broken.
The system in question:
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-10-02-0065
There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to fewest objections.
The south has a massive advantage in the electoral college because they demanded to be able to launder slave votes.
The bigger problem is that the number of seats in the House has been frozen for about a hundred years. Our population exploded, but our number of representatives stayed static, so places with the most people actually get less representation in congress.
On top of this, the number of electors a state has its equal to the number of representatives that state has in the Senate and the House combined. So more populated states also get underrepresented in the presidential election.
The Three-Fifths Compromise was absolutely fucked, but it’s not what is deadlocking the House now and its not what is letting a people lose the popular vote and still go on to be president in 21st century elections.
If we took away the at large electoral seats, and the senate, that would get us halfway to fixing the representation problem.
The house would be next, but that’s a more moderate problem compared to the other half.
Been in their churches, you hear the chorus loud and clear when he talks about ‘taking the country back from the powers of satan and other elitists’. He doesn’t mean Olympic athletes.
This is EXACTLY what the Founders Intended! George Washington LITERALLY said that the US Military should be used on US Citizens and that Children should be Gunned Down in School!
This guy in my discord I got into an argument with recently was going on about how he’s voting for Trump because he cares about the constitution. You can’t win with these clowns
Yup, I was there! I remember it well!
Looks like the U.S. is going to vote in an oppressive dictatorship to own the libs.
idiot has to know he cant do that. the ones that can had better not if they want to keep their stations
This is a reminder to American service members:
Your oath of allegiance is to the United States, not to Donald Trump, Joe Biden, or Kamala Harris. You have a duty to obey lawful orders issued under the authority of the commander in chief. But it is your duty to disobey unlawful orders.
Heritage Foundation: Hold my beer, SCOTUS ASSEMBLE! You know what to do.
SCOTUS: it’s legal now.
I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it further.
The oath is actually to the Constitution of the United States. So it’s not even the country or the government but the idea, the founding document.
Is it the current one, or the originalist one, or the supreme court interpretation one, or the cherry picked and misunderstood one, or?
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No, it’s a very serious question. What happens when Trump gives an illegal order, a soldier refuses to obey it, and is arrested? What do you think John Roberts’ SCOTUS will say? You think it’s too far-fetched for a 6-3 ruling saying “Well, the Constitution says that the President is the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces therefore there exists no mechanism nor rationale for any member of the armed services to disobey” to happen?
In a context where the checks and balances and norms around separation of powers and jurisdiction functioned as intended instead of being undermined and co-opted, the SC normally does not intrude into UCMJ matters. But I’m also quite sure that won’t stop the Tribunal of Six, so who fuckin’ knows.
Lol, civil war then? Imagine trying to arrest the ones with the guns. I’d imagine a big, although still a minority, chunk of troops would immediately defect and form an insurgency under such actions.
We are going back to absolute monarchies in which the king incarnated the law and couldn’t do anything illegal.
The Supreme Court already sent us back there.
The problem is that the current admin that was just given the power, thinks they’ll set a bad example if they actually use it. A more charitable take could be that, maybe they think if they don’t talk about it the orange moron will forget he’ll have the power too (he won’t).
Hell, what do people think will happen if, let’s say hypothetically:
- Trump organizes a civilian militia to attack the country
- Trump actively refuses to order the military to protect people from said militia
- Said militia isolate and attempt to murder basically everyone else in the government who can provide those orders
But nah, that would NEVER happen. And people totally wouldn’t brag about the military waiting to see how things shake out was their god given duty.
- Trump actively refuses to order the military to protect people from said militia
Actually, it could be even worse than that. Trump could theoretically order the military to not interfere at all.
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Speaking of bad-faith posters…
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No, they’re saying that any law asking people to disobey the institutions propped up by that same law in case of them being unjust will always ring hollow, because the courts that decide if that point of legitimacy has been reached will be staffed by the very same people you’d be disobeying.
No court will rule that rebellion against the state is justified. It’s either ‘not legitimate yet, because other options are available’, or it’s too late, because independent courts have been abolished.
This is the correct answer.
The military has never had any hesitancy at all in murdering American citizens when told to. They will not stand up.
Killing people is the reason why some of them joined in the first place.
