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I think this response is a bit harsh. I can understand where they are coming from, and once upon a time i myself may have had a similar kneejerk reaction. I think that as i matured (politically, though age also helps to put things into perspective) i came to understand that such an emotional reaction was not productive. Criticize what needs to be criticized and learn as much as you can from any source that you can. As Lenin said the most important thing a young revolutionary can do is учиться, учиться и учиться.
I think what the OP of this comment chain needs to ask themselves is this: there are already enough imperialist shills trying to discredit and smear anti-imperialist voices, regardless whether these voices come from the left or the right (and frequently conflating the two anyway); do i really want to help them do that and what does my revolutionary cause gain by doing so?
The problem with saying “X is right wing therefore anything they have to say is automatically suspect and we should not listen to them” is not just that it’s superficial moralism, it’s that by doing so you also discredit any correct analysis they may have. Then later when communists make the same correct arguments and point out the same factually true things, our own analysis will have already been discredited by association with the objectionable source. According to the “guilt by association” precedent that we ourselves would have already set.
This is obviously a self-defeating strategy for communists which allows the liberal imperialists to successfully smear the anti-imperialist position as a whole as a right wing one. The correct approach is to critically analyze the content of an argument and judge it based on its merits rather than who it came from.
Is it brusque? Sure. But what exactly is factually wrong with what I’m saying? I AM criticizing what they’re saying because it’s just moralism. They make an emotionally charged statement where the gist is simply that they think the source has had other bad takes (thanks, we’ll take that into consideration) and then takes it personally when others point out that the factual essence of what the source is saying is correct so their supposed character is irrelevant.
It really is not my responsibility to spare the feelings of those who charge in with emotionally and morally charged “arguments” and then martyr themselves when there is pushback from people who honestly just want to know what they’re getting at. They still have not made a single factual claim here!
Fair enough. You’re not wrong and your reaction is valid, but i guess i just don’t like seeing strife in communist spaces. I think we can afford to have a little more patience for our comrades than we typically do with others online, make a conscious effort to be charitable and if they are wrong about something first explain rather than rush to condemn and dismiss them.
We could all stand to be a little less judgemental, and we should remind ourselves that most of us were not always communists. We grow and we learn. Not too long ago most of us probably had plenty of bad takes. It’s to be expected that some of us still have some liberal impulses that need to be unlearned.
I see your point and will try and exercise a bit more patience in the future, but I do think that part of what helped me develop from a radlib into a leftist was the occasional cold reminder when I stepped out of line without doing any investigation.
If one enters a conversation about a conflict in a leftist space where the stakes are as high as they are (WW3, really) and tries to disprove facts by doing ad hominem stuff, you deserve a bit of ridicule because that’s not a real analysis. Acting haughty and doubling down on it and pouting when others besides myself directly ask for some proof is also not really a good look. Nor is tattling to the mods when you’re losing the room.
Please just have some facts if you’re going to walk directly into a thread and confidently say that it’s all bullshit and don’t take it personally when people lose patience when you do not. It’s not asking much.
I think this response is a bit harsh. I can understand where they are coming from, and once upon a time i myself may have had a similar kneejerk reaction. I think that as i matured (politically, though age also helps to put things into perspective) i came to understand that such an emotional reaction was not productive. Criticize what needs to be criticized and learn as much as you can from any source that you can. As Lenin said the most important thing a young revolutionary can do is учиться, учиться и учиться.
I think what the OP of this comment chain needs to ask themselves is this: there are already enough imperialist shills trying to discredit and smear anti-imperialist voices, regardless whether these voices come from the left or the right (and frequently conflating the two anyway); do i really want to help them do that and what does my revolutionary cause gain by doing so?
The problem with saying “X is right wing therefore anything they have to say is automatically suspect and we should not listen to them” is not just that it’s superficial moralism, it’s that by doing so you also discredit any correct analysis they may have. Then later when communists make the same correct arguments and point out the same factually true things, our own analysis will have already been discredited by association with the objectionable source. According to the “guilt by association” precedent that we ourselves would have already set.
This is obviously a self-defeating strategy for communists which allows the liberal imperialists to successfully smear the anti-imperialist position as a whole as a right wing one. The correct approach is to critically analyze the content of an argument and judge it based on its merits rather than who it came from.
Is it brusque? Sure. But what exactly is factually wrong with what I’m saying? I AM criticizing what they’re saying because it’s just moralism. They make an emotionally charged statement where the gist is simply that they think the source has had other bad takes (thanks, we’ll take that into consideration) and then takes it personally when others point out that the factual essence of what the source is saying is correct so their supposed character is irrelevant.
It really is not my responsibility to spare the feelings of those who charge in with emotionally and morally charged “arguments” and then martyr themselves when there is pushback from people who honestly just want to know what they’re getting at. They still have not made a single factual claim here!
Fair enough. You’re not wrong and your reaction is valid, but i guess i just don’t like seeing strife in communist spaces. I think we can afford to have a little more patience for our comrades than we typically do with others online, make a conscious effort to be charitable and if they are wrong about something first explain rather than rush to condemn and dismiss them.
We could all stand to be a little less judgemental, and we should remind ourselves that most of us were not always communists. We grow and we learn. Not too long ago most of us probably had plenty of bad takes. It’s to be expected that some of us still have some liberal impulses that need to be unlearned.
I see your point and will try and exercise a bit more patience in the future, but I do think that part of what helped me develop from a radlib into a leftist was the occasional cold reminder when I stepped out of line without doing any investigation.
If one enters a conversation about a conflict in a leftist space where the stakes are as high as they are (WW3, really) and tries to disprove facts by doing ad hominem stuff, you deserve a bit of ridicule because that’s not a real analysis. Acting haughty and doubling down on it and pouting when others besides myself directly ask for some proof is also not really a good look. Nor is tattling to the mods when you’re losing the room.
Please just have some facts if you’re going to walk directly into a thread and confidently say that it’s all bullshit and don’t take it personally when people lose patience when you do not. It’s not asking much.