• OpenPassageways@lemmy.zipEnglish
    83·
    3 months ago

    Democrats: “let’s pass some reasonable reforms to temper the ill effects of deregulated capitalism”

    Republicans: “that’s socialism and you’re a Marxist!”

    Youth: “we want reform so I guess we like socialism!”

    Republicans: “the radical left is indoctrinating our kids!”

  • xantoxis@lemmy.worldEnglish
    63·
    3 months ago

    I promise you, the Republican party doesn’t care who they offend as long as it’s an out-group.

    • bestagon@lemmy.worldEnglish
      111·
      3 months ago

      I swear the republicans are running pr for democrats. Harris went from “communist” to Marxist, and not even attached to Lenin!

    • frezik@midwest.socialEnglish
      94·
      3 months ago

      I laughed out loud at the debate where he said Harris’ father was a “marxist professor of economics”. That is not a thing.

      • OBJECTION!English
        91·
        3 months ago

        What do you mean “that’s not a thing?” I don’t believe he’s ever explicitly called himself a Marxist but he has cited Marx as an influence on his works, as a professor of economics.

        One of Harris’s most notable contributions to economics is his 1978 monograph Capital Accumulation and Income Distribution, which is a critique of orthodox economic theories that provides an alternative, synthesizing the work of David Ricardo, Kalecki, Marx, Roy Harrod, and others. Harris employs mathematical modeling to explore the relationship between the accumulation of capital and income inequality, economic growth, economic instability, and other phenomena, arguing that typical theories fail to adequately consider power, class, and historical context.

        It seems basically true that he’s a Marxist professor of economics. It’s just not really relevant to Kamala since she’s an entirely different person.

        • Lad@reddthat.comEnglish
          10·
          3 months ago

          Also, any economist worth their salt has studied Marxism to some degree. Love him or hate him, Marx is one of the most influential economists in history!

          • OBJECTION!English
            41·
            3 months ago

            If someone called him a Ricardian professor of economics and someone else was like, “Lol that’s not a thing” I’d say that the first person was more right than the second, with the same disclaimers I said in my comment.

            Again, I think the whole issue is silly. Kamala is not her father. And I don’t see being a Marxist as being a bad thing. Considering how much the term gets slung around in US politics to people it doesn’t apply to at all, like Kamala Harris or Obama, I think it’s kind of silly to push back against it when it’s being used with someone who could credibly be called a Marxist. Especially when the much more clear and relevant line is that her father is irrelevant.

  • kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    43·
    3 months ago

    Im not offended as much as I am disappointed in the Democrat party, why aren’t they as cool as the Republican say they are. Whenever Trump calls them “far left communists” I think “damn I wish”, instead they’re boring center right liberals. Also I was promised by Trump that the Democrats would end capitalism, kill capitalists, instiute a worker owned economy, open the borders to immigration, enforce Trans rights, promote actual diversity, and unify the left under the red banner.

    • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      102·
      3 months ago

      Dems are as cool as republicans because they’re the same thing. The dems aren’t going to call republicans fascist because the dems share all the same symptoms. They’re not going to call out the republicans for supporting genocide because they also support genocide. They’re not going to call out republicans on supporting the prison state because dems also support the prison state. The dems aren’t going to criticize the republicans for serving capital because the dems serve capital. Etc.

      You gotta realize these politicians are agreeing on much much more than they disagree. It’s what’s not debated that’s most important.

    • ansiz@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      3 months ago

      It’s worse than that, Dems today are literally more right wing than Richard Nixon. Nixon literally wanted Federal universal healthcare at one point, started the EPA and expanded welfare.

          • mriormro@lemmy.worldEnglish
            10·
            3 months ago

            This is some of the dumbest shit I’ve read in a while.

            You have both such a narrow understanding of political positions as well as, seemingly, a narrow perspective of other people’s lives.

          • Red Army Dog CooperEnglish
            9·
            3 months ago

            I can tell you from personal experence that Trans/LGBT bubbles as you call it, are incredably liberal and very rarely communist, Second have you considered why they are desperate, or was that enough for you to dismiss them. Third… do you know what Communism is? fourth, do you mean “here too” as you almost became a communist, or where you live almost did fifth, please learn what communism is, and also understand why there are spaces like the LGBT spaces,

              • Red Army Dog CooperEnglish
                7·
                3 months ago

                First, finaly someone noticed my username so thank you for starting your correct accusation of me being a communist origionaly at my name and not my instence

                second, no one told me to orde or brigade, did I post alot to you, yes but that is because as I was reading through this it was your posts that seemed to make me the most upset, or give me the urge to talk to. I have no idea who this Tovarish is, no would I follow them with no reason

                last, what do you mean “theoretical communist” this seems like something that you can throw that is desinged to picit in such a way that it becomes unfalsifyable, let alsone your last part makes it so that the only way to falsify your claim is to atleast partialy dox myself. I can tell you I am in both education and trade if that makes you feel any better, beyond that I do not feel it wise to scream it on the internet.

                this also answers none of the things I brought up, other than welcoming me, a thing I do want to thank you for you did nothing but accuse me of brigading, having no mind of my own, and not being a real comunist. I fail to see how this is productive

      • AntiOutsideAktionEnglish
        91·
        3 months ago

        Coming off as your accusations here

        wanna make some french style revolution

        And not smart enough to keep your ignorance of history under your hat to boot

        great first impression

          • zarkanian@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            6·
            3 months ago

            I am and it’s fucking great lemme tell you that. You should try it some time

            Now that is teenager energy.

          • kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
            5·
            3 months ago

            That is insanely out of touch, oh yeah ill just casually aquire capital because I have millions of dollars lying around. It ain’t like im struggling with low wages and an incredibly high cost of living. Consider talking to people outside of your circle of capitalists and maybe try talking to some working class people.

              • kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
                4·
                3 months ago

                It doesn’t matter where you live, be it the US, Europe, or Australia, the cost of living is factually speaking going up in all capitalist countries while wages stagnate. The vast majority of people cannot afford to own capital, basic Capitalist economics state that the working class does not own the means of production. Also why did you just assume im American?

      • Shapillon@lemmy.worldEnglish
        41·
        3 months ago

        It’s just an hyperbole about how leftists feel about vaguely centrist policies.

  • zeppo@lemmy.worldEnglish
    43·
    3 months ago

    I’m more of a practical American socialist than a radical communist (since that’s unlikely to happen here) but it offends me because republicans are just so ignorant. The average Republican essentially has no idea what socialism, communism or fascism actually are, and conservatives have been using this as a scary label for my entire life.

    • Cowbee [he/they]English
      104·
      3 months ago

      I’m more of a practical American socialist than a radical communist (since that’s unlikely to happen here)

      Why do you say this? What’s a “practical American Socialist?”

      • zeppo@lemmy.worldEnglish
        131·
        3 months ago
        • practical: I don’t have any delusions that the US will implement leftism more extreme than EU style socialist policies any time soon
        • American: I’m from the US
        • socialist: I feel the government should be involved more in regulating industries, owning certain categories of services, moderating excess wealth, and ensuring the financial/economic well-being of citizens, as opposed to the conservative style which is basically ‘well, if you’re poor then fuck off’.
        • Cowbee [he/they]English
          105·
          3 months ago
          • practical: I don’t have any delusions that the US will implement leftism more extreme than EU style socialist policies any time soon

          The EU doesn’t have socialist policies, you’re referring to social safety nets.

          • socialist: I feel the government should be involved more in regulating industries, owning certain categories of services, moderating excess wealth, and ensuring the financial/economic well-being of citizens, as opposed to the conservative style which is basically ‘well, if you’re poor then fuck off’.

          So you’re talking Social Democracy, like the Nordics, not Socialism.

          • zeppo@lemmy.worldEnglish
            71·
            3 months ago

            Not precisely as I mentioned public ownership of some industries and services that are privately owned. Healthcare and drug production would be two good examples.

            • Cowbee [he/they]English
              51·
              3 months ago

              Those are found in the nordics, that’s still dependent on Capitalism as the basis unless you also want to entirely restructure government.

              • zeppo@lemmy.worldEnglish
                1·
                3 months ago

                I’d love for the US economic system to somehow be wholly restructured, but incremental improvements are the best we can do currently.

          • NoMadMan@lemmy.worldEnglish
            33·
            3 months ago

            Look, people have been debating the definition of socialism for decades, and you guys are not going to figure out here today on Lemmy World.

    • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      2·
      3 months ago

      Both parties agree on the standard indoctrination. They only disagree about the purpose/topics of the brainwashing. Neither party wants it to include an honest discussion about socialism, fascism, etc. It’s a self-perpetuating problem where the indoctrinators don’t even understand what this stuff means.

      • zeppo@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        3 months ago

        I agree that corporate hegemony is non-negotiable in mainstream US politics. The question is what to do about it, and which version is worse. Republicans are far, far worse about everything that is on the table. Democrats are willing to reign in the corporations a little bit and actually help people. The Republican propaganda and the insane policies they think of are far, far worse.

    • NoMadMan@lemmy.worldEnglish
      23·
      3 months ago

      In order not to be confounded with economic socialists, who the right accuses of wanting everything for free at the expense of others, I always inform people that I am a Nathan J. Robinson socialist.

  • Juice@midwest.socialEnglish
    405·
    3 months ago

    Democrats should ask themselves why Republicans are more worried about imaginary communists than actual Democrats

    • qarbone@lemmy.worldEnglish
      109·
      3 months ago

      Is this a genuine comment? Or some n-th level joke I’m too normie understand?

      Because it reads to me like you’re trying to redirect a tired, Comservative refrain that anything politically Left of Reagonomics is Communism (which hails back to the Cold War and the Red Scare) into some dogwhistle admission by the GOP that they are the same as the DNP and are, in fact, actually worried about Communists.

      Which sounds ridiculous.

      • Juice@midwest.socialEnglish
        106·
        3 months ago

        Dog whistle admission? No I don’t think that republicans and democrats believe they are the “same” and I don’t think that communists believe that GOP and dems believe that about themselves. Some young online communists might believe that Republicans and democrats are the same, since they are both capitalist parties, but that’s kind of a coarse analysis and I don’t think its great messaging.

        • qarbone@lemmy.worldEnglish
          81·
          3 months ago

          Then I’ll have to ask you what the original comment meant as you’ve denied the only obvious take I could read from it.

          • PapaStevesy@lemmy.worldEnglish
            11·
            3 months ago

            Seems to me like they’re simply implying that the GOP knows they can’t beat Democrats on policy so they create this Communist Strawman to scare their constituents. It’s pretty basic GOP SOP.

          • Juice@midwest.socialEnglish
            93·
            3 months ago

            Republicans aren’t afraid of democrats because dems aren’t a threat to republican power. Republican policy threatens the lives of millions of women, children, bipoc, lgbtq+, etc., but dems can only stave off the worst abuses, such as a second trump term (they’d better be able to, so far looks like he’s cooked) or launch a campaign once the rights have been taken away. And yes its true, republicans and democrats get funding from many of the same sources, democrats have even funded goofball republicans they thought would be easier to defeat (see desantis, trump). Republicans have nothing to fear from a democrat. I am wishing that democrats were more self reflective of these reasons and many others; but rather than do an ounce of self reflection “the only obvious” take you could get made no sense. Its sadly quite telling, as to how otherwise good, intelligent people are able to believe and adhere to the nonexistent “back to brunch” political program of the democrats.

            Hope that clarifies my perspective for you a smidge

            • Jax@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              21·
              3 months ago

              No it doesn’t, it doesn’t clarify anything. So far you’ve completely avoided anything that the other person brought up. You haven’t established what your point actually is, you’ve just gone on and on and I can’t tell if you’re trying to suggest that Dems are unaware that Reps create strawmen or you actually believe that Reps should be afraid of communists.

              Neither make sense. I don’t know what you’re trying to say, and I’m a third party - please help me.

        • towerful@programming.devEnglish
          43·
          3 months ago

          It’s probably the whole “yeh, still capitalism. Still big oil. Still big pharma. Still genocide and world-police”.
          And you show that Dems are better on all those things. But because Dems don’t fully SOLVE 4/4 of them, it doesn’t matter who you vote for because you still get fucked.

          It’s bullshit.
          Dems have more social benefit policies and track record of social improvements than reps.
          ACA, vet funding/care, insulin etc pricing, student loans. Hopefully things like unions, but idk if I have been caught up in propaganda that Dems don’t care about unions.

          • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            2·
            3 months ago

            That’s a desperate list. Student loans, eh?

            The only real form of vet care is abolishing imperialism and the military.

  • Cowbee [he/they]English
    321·
    3 months ago

    Can confirm. Every time the reps call Kamala a “comrade” or “Communist” I die a little bit inside.

    • xenoclast@lemmy.worldEnglish
      26·
      3 months ago

      They’re using a word their base is afraid of to paint their enemies in a negative light.

      Their words aren’t for any of us.

      They’ll change to using anarchist satanists or whatever once their base has reached somatic satiation and “communist” no longer generates enough of the right dopamine hit.

      • Cowbee [he/they]English
        151·
        3 months ago

        Oh I’m aware, believe me. The world would be a much better place if Kamala was actually a Communist is what I’m saying.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
          13·
          3 months ago

          If Kamala had tried to do anything vaguely socialist while AG or Senator, they’d have gakked her like they did Harvey Milk.

          Silicon Valley leadership wants to turn California into a fully techno-fascist dystopia. Nobody who has climbed the ladder as Dem, Repub, or Indie politician has lasted long against that effort. Harris isn’t an exception. She’s the kind of politician a state produces when anyone more liberal than Gruesome Newsome is systematically excluded from the party.

      • xenoclast@lemmy.worldEnglish
        10·
        3 months ago

        Or they’ll get lucky and a new term like Trans or BLM will come along.

        Hate is hate. People that hate will hate. Societies that don’t respond quickly and firmly to reduce hate will grow more hate. Etc .

        • Cowbee [he/they]English
          10·
          3 months ago

          Ideas come from material conditions, hatred of trans people, black people, etc. is a result of rising fascism due to decay in Capitalism and proletarianization of the Petite Bourgeoisie.

          • Cadenza@lemmy.worldEnglish
            5·
            3 months ago

            I truly had no idea the English name was similar to the French one. TIL something.

              • Cadenza@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                3 months ago

                Indeed, but just to be sure, is the meaning the same? The lower fringe/extremity of the bourgeoisie, often with more cultural capital than economical (teachers, non-pauperized nurses, young journalists, PhD in social sciences, etc.), joyfully rebellious but also with high levels of strict adherence to the established order, main agents of the gentrification of formerly popular urban neighborhood but whose younger generations can sometimes adhere to revolutionary perspectives, strongly despised by orthodox marxists while being the primary audience of such movements/orgs?

                • Cowbee [he/they]English
                  6·
                  3 months ago

                  Generally the Petitie Bourgeoisie are the lower stratum of the Bourgeoisie proper who are proletatianized by the formation of Monopoly Capitalism, ie small business owners.

          • xenoclast@lemmy.worldEnglish
            5·
            3 months ago

            Yeah. Good ol fear leading to authoritarianism. One day maybe humans will able to teach enough history to enough humans living on earth at one time to finally learn to not repeat these cycles…

        • xenoclast@lemmy.worldEnglish
          21·
          3 months ago

          Agreed … but it’s also kind of meaningless. Which it my point. It’s an emotion generating word. Not a “communicating an idea or concept” word. So when it’s said it’s only ever really used to make you react emotionally.

          But you can only get so worked up with only one “hate” word. To continue the cycle they gotta add new ones to keep you keyed up.

          • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.worldEnglish
            4·
            3 months ago

            The right doesn’t care about the idea or concept, if they found out that blurting out the meaningless phrase ‘Blaguoasrunt’ at a loud volume triggered people, they would do it, it would catch on, and people would make merchandise about it.

            Regressive communications are the death of meaning, and I do not mean that casually. They take words and abuse them so much that everyone else stops caring about the word, regardless of what it meant before.

            The word ‘Patriot’ is a great example. No one I know would appreciate that title because constant right wing misuse of it has twisted its meaning even in common phrases.

    • Zess@lemmy.worldEnglish
      9·
      3 months ago

      “Explain to me what you think a communist is”

      I guarantee they give a wrong answer if they can even figure one out.

      • Cowbee [he/they]English
        41·
        3 months ago

        To be fair, most people on Lemmy.world can’t either. The vast majority of people in the west have not read Marx, or if they have done so, they have only read the Communist Manifesto perhaps once. Communism is so thoroughly demonized in the Imperial Core that only a minor fraction have even read Marx, and only a fraction among them have read more than just the CM.

    • TheFrirish@jlai.luEnglish
      6·
      3 months ago

      When I heard Trump calling her “Marxis-Leninist” I was like mate you don’t even know the beginning of the beginning of even socialism.

  • frog_brawler@lemmy.worldEnglish
    31·
    3 months ago

    Or… just start pushing actual socialist policy; since everything gets called socialism anyway, we may as well enjoy it.

    • Cowbee [he/they]English
      212·
      3 months ago

      Why would they? The Democrats are one wing of a state dominated by monopolist Capitalists, they serve the monopolist Capitalists.

    • NoMadMan@lemmy.worldEnglish
      33·
      3 months ago

      But which socialism? The economic socialism that those on the right hate, or the true social Socialism of which so many enjoy the fruits?

      When are we going to start PUBLICLY calling out those on the right who accepted COVID stimulus checks from the government? This was a blatantly socialist program, bigger than the “Obamaphones” even (before you go off on me for citing Obamaphones, keep in mind that I believe a smartphone with service is a human right.) we’ve got all these people walking around from the right to talk about how much they hate socialism but that 3,200 seemed to come in pretty handy for most of them.