“It was hiding in the celery," said DEA Special Agent in Charge Robert Murphy. "Obviously, we threw away the celery. That didn’t make it to the store.”
Perfect example that vast majority of narcotics enter the country through LEGAL checkpoints and NOT via migrants crossing the border as Trump and GOP like to fear monger
not to mention they are half as criminally violent compared to US Citizens…about 45% less violent if they are undocumented
It has always been about racism. not crime. not drugs.
The crime stats are heavily skewed as undocumented persons are significantly less likely to involve the police.
Large groups of people are pretty predictable. The actual crime rates are probably much closer to the equivalent crime rates of the cities and neighborhoods that align to with their own economic status i.e class and poverty are the best predictors of crime rates, not citizenship, or lack thereof.
This isn’t an argument for, or against, any immigration policy. It’s an argument against using flawed statistics.
Dollar for dollar, hedge fund managers, bankers, CEOs and such like are far more prolific thieves than those in poverty.
(It’s kinda how they got wealthy…)
Yeah, I don’t disagree.
But again, that has nothing to do with what’s been discussed here.
For starters, this is about violent crime and it’s not about the inherent criminality of any group of people.
It’s about stats and why this particular statistic is critically flawed, and bogus.
Incorrect, wage theft is the most common committed crime if we’re talking about ‘counts of crime’ instead of just reporting.
Uh…what… incorrect…?
This entire thread was spawned from someone posting a statistic relating to violent crime rates amongst different population groups.
Financial crimes, wage theft, jaywalking, or any other criminal act you can think of, that isn’t categorized as a “violent crime”, is irrelevant when the discussion is about one specific flawed violent crime statistic…
You right, I lost track
Ok, but putting this from another standpoint, while undocumented folks may be less likely to involve police for crimes committed against them, others are not so disincentivized. If these immigrants were, as the GOP likes to point out, criminals, you would expect higher crime rates reported by citizens. However, that’s not the case, and the crime that conservatives care about is only against them. They don’t care about undocumented immigrant crime against other undocumented immigrants.
There’s a lot of assumptions here.
Significant isn’t specific. A specific number would give us an idea if the rate of crime committed by undocumented persons exceeds, meets, or continues to fall short of the other two groups.
Next, you’re assuming that the victims of violent crimes by undocumented workers are other undocumented workers. This, to some degree makes sense. But it’s not 100%.
Next, poverty in of itself isn’t sufficient to predict rates of crime. Crime is a choice taken when there aren’t other avenues available. Arguably, the reasons undocumented peoples move here is because their prospects are better here. That is to say, they chose to leave their people to come here instead of staying there and commiting crime. This isn’t, obviously, specific. But it’s a factor you didn’t consider.
Finally, what do you mean by class? There’s a lot of usages.
This isn’t an argument to say you are wrong. It’s an argument that you have been specific or open to other factors.
Of course it’s not specific, which is the inherent problem with these stats. Crimes that are not reported, cannot be factored into the crime rates.
But you rarely see this amount of skepticism when people point out how rapes and sexual assaults are also significantly underreported.
In both instances you have victim groups who less likely to go to the police and report the crimes.
I am not saying poor people are intrinsically more deviant, or criminal in nature. Many factors play into the increased crime rates of people in poverty, including but not limited to, desperation and over policing.
I also never said that undocumented migrants couldn’t have crime rates that trend below national averages. I said that the notion that their crime rates were half the national average was bogus, for reasons that you seem to acknowledge as well.
My point wasn’t to provide the framework for calculating the actual rates, or more approximate estimations, because frankly I don’t have that skill set. But then again, no ideas I laid out in these comments originated from me either. These are all well known problems with that bogus stat.
Either people think disinformation, or “fake news”, is bad, or they don’t. They can’t cry and scream about it when MAGA people use it, and then turn around and use it they when they feel it’s politically expedient.
The actual crime rates are probably much closer to the equivalent crime rates of the cities and neighborhoods that align to with their own economic status
I was not defending the stats. I was critiquing your analysis and the conclusion you reached.
Real, scientifically backed, crime stats actually say the exact opposite of your claim. It turns out cops are racist as fuck, and are so much more likely to interact with and cause trouble for people of color whenever the opportunity presents itself that it’s not even a question. https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2020/05/veil-darkness-reduces-racial-bias-traffic-stops
What you’re talking about has exactly nothing to do what’s being discussed here…
Except for the possibility that the racist reputation of police in America may contribute to the reluctance of the undocumented persons to report when that they’ve been a victim of a crime…
Wouldn’t that argument count more towards the victim of a crime than the perpetrator?
Why would someone not involve police when the offender is an undocumented immigrant?
Keep in mind, the statistic only includes felonies.
You’re assuming that undocumented persons are evenly dispersed amongst the country, and in every community, when they’re not.
While you’ll find undocumented persons all over the country, like any other group, there are areas of heavy concentration that account for the majority of population. And in those areas, they tend to form communities around each other.
So if the vast majority of them live within communities that comprise heavily of other undocumented migrants, those crimes that are between two and undocumented persons, are significantly less likely to be brought attention of American law enforcement.
I’m not saying never, but that is a common enough occurrence to skew those stats and make them disingenuous at best.
Again, nothing new to what I’m saying here…
You are just… so terrible at understanding statistics it’s hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.
Really?
So you disagree with my broad strokes explainer on undocumented population distribution?
Or do you disagree with my assertion that most perpetrators of crime victimize people in their same community?
When your entire premise is wrong you don’t get to claim minor victories. They do not sum up to you being correct if you still get the wrong answer with the correct variables. You’ve shown your work but the answer is still wrong. Do better.
Do you say the same thing when stats are used to demonize immigrants? You apply the same level of skepticism?
Of course… Why wouldn’t I?
Wait…Do you believe spreading bad information, or fake news, is justified if it’s for something you believe in?
And it’s not skepticism, it’s a known flaw in that bogus stat. It’s not like I’m breaking news here.
I’m sure the documented immigrant data is more complete. So my point still stands
No it doesn’t
lol sounds like the responses we get from the Trump campaign.
“naw fuck facts”
American Citizens are more criminally violent than immigrants of any kind.
Stop looking for scapegoats
edit: keep downvoting me instead of proving me wrong, you are just strengthening my argument
Or illegal immigrants are more likely out of their population (about 10 million) to commit a violent crime.
Finally one person gives a decent reasoning lol it actually does make a lot of sense too
You have numbers to cite?
They really seem to not care about anything other than the migrants.
“But they will take my cookies!”
But they will take my cocaine!
And my bow.
And genitals.
The agency had learned about a semitrailer coming across the Mexican border, and agents tracked the drugs to the farmers market, said DEA Special Agent in Charge Robert Murphy. The drugs were found inside the truck, he said.
“This was contained in a cover load of celery,”
So unfortunately not inside the celery itself, which would of course be significantly more fun :(
Pretty crazy that imported food is finding it’s way into a farmer’s market in the first place. My local farmers market is pretty stringent on what is allowed and eant proof that your produce or wares were produced within 100 miles of the city.
It was likely not the final selling point, just a convent place with lots of trucks and people to blend into. May have had one guy with a stall, but it was more likely a place to split it into other shipments.
Now I’m wondering if you could get celery to soak up a drug solution since it’s so watery, then extract the drugs again later
Or serve as a vehicle for bioaccumulation.
Mirepoix never was so amazing.
I feel like you’re trying to get me to snort my vegetables.
I’m just imagining ants on a log, but the peanut butter is meth
Meth sprinkled celery would be quite a reinventing of the traditional ‘ants on a log’ recipe, anyway
I’d like to return the headline please
Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it. I lost 87 pounds in 2 months on the meth and celery diet. The twitching and sores are totally worth it.
Thanks, just changed it.
No worries!
“How to get your kids to crave their vegetables.”
They didn’t throw out the meth though right?
The 1500 lb of meth? No they didn’t throw that away.
That seizure of 980lb of meth is surely a county record, and was promptly moved to a secure location.
Yeah we loaded all 530lbs of meth into evidence already Danny.
First those sweets in NZ then this. Lots of screwups in the meth business!
At least this meth isn’t where a child would find it!
I’m surprised it’s where a Georgian would find it.
Unless the kid wanted to make a celery boat as a snack.
At that point, isn’t it more that celery was found in a shipment of meth?
ANTS! On a log!
But these will crawl all over you.
My mom just used peanut butter to stuff celery. This sounds like a horrible mother…
Not the onion indeed
Why is meth suddenly popping up in food everywhere?
Meth has always beem a popular party drug, and has always entered the country in wild vectors like this. I think what has changed is the DEA is no longer cracking down on illegal marijuana imports aince half the states now have legalized growth in some capacity or another. No sense in shipping pot to Wisconsin or Indiana when every state they border has a dispenseries directly across the state line. The DEA has to show that they are doing something, so they are cracking down on meth now
Meth is really tasty
Everyone knows celery is a precursor. Jesse, it’s time to cook 🧑🍳
Got that blue cheese dip, BIITCH
Please, Krusty, no jokes.
Both have negative calories?
