My understanding is that Lemmy.ml is not exactly a nice place. Lots of drama. I’m staying out. But it very well might be a bad starting point for new users.
Then again I’M a new user, and I have next to no idea what’s going on.
Whereas here you are talking about communities, which should be visible across the Federation regardless - subject to the standard, complex set of rules (which you are working to lower the barrier for with all your alts pre-subscribing:-).
And to complicate matters further, it sounds like these communities have been missing from that list for many months now already. So this truly might be a unique situation, if that instance has actively removed consent to be listed there? Perhaps they would reconsider offering their consent to listing the communities if asked though?
which at least one person said was removed deliberately so as not to overload them - so presumably by their own consent and likely even request
Presumably being the key word here. It’s not clear based on this comment. It might have been a Lemmyverse decision to remove all of the .ml communities because they disagreed with the instance admins political stances.
Right, I was raising awareness of that specter and suggesting that it would need follow-up research into the history. It looks like that website was announced a year ago but I found nothing (except this OP) about “explorer” & “lemmy.ml” by a quick search in this community or in other communities too. At a guess it would have been discussed offline, i.e. Matrix rather than Lemmy.
Fwiw, it has been 7 days since I told you that it was missing from that list. But yeah, it could have been the changes prior to the official roll-out of that version.
Although, v0.19.4 is one possibility yes, but it is also possible that the instance was missing prior to that as well, if they had asked for it to be due to the incoming flood from the Rexodus? i.e. this is not enough to reject the null hypothesis that both things might be true at the same time.
I do not say this b/c of my bias against them - if hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml are there, then lemmy.ml should likewise not be non-consensually removed either, the issue is whether they asked for it to be removed, or not.
Speaking of, it would be good to place a warning about all 3 of them - people should be free to do as they please, but part of that freedom entails having the knowledge to make a choice. Silence in the face of oppression is not “freedom”, as e.g. Ukranians realize better than any of us today, sadly:-(. Like porn, it is fine for someone to walk in with full knowledge of what lies ahead, it is when it surprises a naive unaware person that it causes problems.
it would be good to place a warning about all 3 of them
Where, and how? Seems tedious to write a satisfying message with “don’t go there for politics, but it’s probably the best place for FOSS content” that wouldn’t confuse new joiners
Didn’t know! Were there any responses from the .ml admins?
I also noticed that this post is not available on lemmy.ml, apparently they banned the post. Looks like they banned the OP from the instance.
It looks like admins from .ml ban people who write bad things about CCP and .world admins ban people who can write bad things about US imperialism. They both think that they fight trolls and usually it’s the case.
For example, the banned OP wrote something like “Why, to ban criticism about China more actively?” in https://feddit.nl/comment/10140068 (6 days ago, while the post was created 9 month ago!) which is definitely not okay behavior.
For projects, where they have their community presence also speaks to their ideology. Those projects’ communities chose to move off of Reddit, and be on Lemmy; those projects’ communities chose the instance they’re on.
One may plea ignorance in the early days of Lemmy, that they’re misguided by the instance description; but now a year later after all the drama, their decision to remain there will start to influence who will be able to interact with their community.
I have no sympathy for communities that chose to remain on CSAM infested instances that got defederated, and I will have no sympathy for project communities that continues to associate with ideologies by the ml admins.
The communities above are not managed by a project organisation (the only one I know if !librewolf@lemmy.ml), it’s just that until last week, lemmy.ml was considered the go-to instance for FOSS and Linux.
Network effect is here, I know it first hand as I’ve been busy posting to !linux@programming.dev to try to offer people an alternative to the lemmy.ml community.
But I’m not planning to do that with the communities above, and same for the other FOSS communities, because I have other stuff to do
The vast majority of people going to those communities just want a place with enough people to answer their questions on the topic. They are not going to organize a migration, most of them are probably not even aware of the issues with lemmy.ml administration (seems like the post got removed from lemmy.ml: https://lemmy.ml/comment/11606059)
I see where you come from, and I get it to an extend, but the vast majority of people are probably going to keep going to those communities without any change.
If someone wants to organize a migration of those above communities (the thread I linked above can be a starting point), feel free, but I wouldn’t count on it. And without an active migration, those communities will stay the reference for those topics.
It is, someone should probably open an issue on the Github: https://github.com/tgxn/lemmy-explorer/issues
…or don’t.
My understanding is that Lemmy.ml is not exactly a nice place. Lots of drama. I’m staying out. But it very well might be a bad starting point for new users.
Then again I’M a new user, and I have next to no idea what’s going on.
There is some drama, but at the same time some only exist there (see this post: https://lemmy.world/post/16235541)
For instance
So I wouldn’t say it’s such a good idea to not show them at all.
This is a bit of a tangent though - OP was talking about instances, which at least one person said was removed deliberately so as not to overload them - so presumably by their own consent and likely even request?
Whereas here you are talking about communities, which should be visible across the Federation regardless - subject to the standard, complex set of rules (which you are working to lower the barrier for with all your alts pre-subscribing:-).
And to complicate matters further, it sounds like these communities have been missing from that list for many months now already. So this truly might be a unique situation, if that instance has actively removed consent to be listed there? Perhaps they would reconsider offering their consent to listing the communities if asked though?
Presumably being the key word here. It’s not clear based on this comment. It might have been a Lemmyverse decision to remove all of the .ml communities because they disagreed with the instance admins political stances.
Right, I was raising awareness of that specter and suggesting that it would need follow-up research into the history. It looks like that website was announced a year ago but I found nothing (except this OP) about “explorer” & “lemmy.ml” by a quick search in this community or in other communities too. At a guess it would have been discussed offline, i.e. Matrix rather than Lemmy.
Look at this comment: https://feddit.nl/comment/10290637
It’s affecting every 0.19.4 instance, not only lemmy.ml
Fwiw, it has been 7 days since I told you that it was missing from that list. But yeah, it could have been the changes prior to the official roll-out of that version.
Although, v0.19.4 is one possibility yes, but it is also possible that the instance was missing prior to that as well, if they had asked for it to be due to the incoming flood from the Rexodus? i.e. this is not enough to reject the null hypothesis that both things might be true at the same time.
I do not say this b/c of my bias against them - if hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml are there, then lemmy.ml should likewise not be non-consensually removed either, the issue is whether they asked for it to be removed, or not.
Speaking of, it would be good to place a warning about all 3 of them - people should be free to do as they please, but part of that freedom entails having the knowledge to make a choice. Silence in the face of oppression is not “freedom”, as e.g. Ukranians realize better than any of us today, sadly:-(. Like porn, it is fine for someone to walk in with full knowledge of what lies ahead, it is when it surprises a naive unaware person that it causes problems.
Lemmy.ml deployed 0.19.4 around 13 days ago (local communities were made available in that release): https://lemmy.ml/post/16252832
Where, and how? Seems tedious to write a satisfying message with “don’t go there for politics, but it’s probably the best place for FOSS content” that wouldn’t confuse new joiners
Didn’t know! Were there any responses from the
.mladmins?I also noticed that this post is not available onLooks like they banned the OP from the instance.lemmy.ml, apparently they banned the post.It looks like admins from
.mlban people who write bad things about CCP and.worldadmins ban people who can write bad things about US imperialism. They both think that they fight trolls and usually it’s the case.For example, the banned OP wrote something like “Why, to ban criticism about China more actively?” in https://feddit.nl/comment/10140068 (6 days ago, while the post was created 9 month ago!) which is definitely not okay behavior.
I criticize US imperialism all the time. Not even a warning let alone a ban. So I don’t think that’s the case.
You are right, I said it wrong.
They mostly ban for being a tankie.
That’s okay, they can move.
They can, but hiding those useful communities from people who are probably just trying to troubleshoot their systems doesn’t seem helpful
For projects, where they have their community presence also speaks to their ideology. Those projects’ communities chose to move off of Reddit, and be on Lemmy; those projects’ communities chose the instance they’re on.
One may plea ignorance in the early days of Lemmy, that they’re misguided by the instance description; but now a year later after all the drama, their decision to remain there will start to influence who will be able to interact with their community.
I have no sympathy for communities that chose to remain on CSAM infested instances that got defederated, and I will have no sympathy for project communities that continues to associate with ideologies by the ml admins.
The communities above are not managed by a project organisation (the only one I know if !librewolf@lemmy.ml), it’s just that until last week, lemmy.ml was considered the go-to instance for FOSS and Linux.
Network effect is here, I know it first hand as I’ve been busy posting to !linux@programming.dev to try to offer people an alternative to the lemmy.ml community.
But I’m not planning to do that with the communities above, and same for the other FOSS communities, because I have other stuff to do
The vast majority of people going to those communities just want a place with enough people to answer their questions on the topic. They are not going to organize a migration, most of them are probably not even aware of the issues with lemmy.ml administration (seems like the post got removed from lemmy.ml: https://lemmy.ml/comment/11606059)
I see where you come from, and I get it to an extend, but the vast majority of people are probably going to keep going to those communities without any change.
If someone wants to organize a migration of those above communities (the thread I linked above can be a starting point), feel free, but I wouldn’t count on it. And without an active migration, those communities will stay the reference for those topics.
On an interesting note, !collapse@lemmy.ml move to !collapse@lemm.ee recently.
I edited my comment. Looks like they banned the user, this is why the post is missing. And it’s kinda unfortunate :(
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