Shouldn’t have said anything, now I’m getting paragraphs upon paragraphs about Putler and how the West has a moral obligation to prolong the war in Ukraine for as long as possible sad-boi

Also while apparently it can’t be denied that the far right has grown somewhat stronger in Ukraine, the Ukrainian military had to rely on militias such as Azov so they wouldn’t lose, we should not worry because they haven’t seen that much electoral success

  • MorelaakIsBack [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    58
    ·
    7 months ago

    inb4 he reluctantly admits azov is just out-and-out fash, but then immediately shifts goalpost to “ok but there’s a big fash problem in the russian army too, you know” (aka the ‘my dad’)

      • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        20
        ·
        edit-2
        7 months ago

        They (literally in this case) hold a gun to the government in Ukraine. They don’t need to win any elections, they just need to ban all left wing opposition in the name of anti-collaboration (done) and then wait for the liberals to fuck everything up (happening), then come into power on a stabbed in the back myth.

        Edit: The only way this doesn’t happen is if Russia literally kills most of them, and even then, that will not stop the sons and daughters of these nationalists from repeating the same refrains as their mothers and fathers. The only fortunate thing is that the conscription age is still not under 27, so we are not yet seeing literal children being sent to die in this war like near the end of WWI. However, that does lead me to the idea that these new Ukrainian nationalists will not be hardened enough to take the government by force. They will be the soft children of American compradors, claiming the west stabbed them in the back while campaigning using western funding.

    • Amaltheamannen
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      7 months ago

      I understand not supporting Ukraine due to it for example banning leftist opposition parties, removing rights for minority languages, fascists in the military etc. But I also see a lot of people actively cheering on and supporting Russia which I dont understand. Is a reactionary dictatorship really preferred to neoliberalism?

      I also understand its horrible that the west is using the Ukrainian people as a meat grinder to occupy and weaken Russia, but would a Russian invasion and russification be much better?

      I feel like we need to be better than just contrarian, though I cant honestly decide which is best or least worse.

      • RaisedFistJoker [she/her]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        ·
        edit-2
        7 months ago

        Is a reactionary dictatorship really preferred to neoliberalism

        Ukraine is a fascist neo nazi dictatorship, russia is preferred.

        We’re communists here, heres how marx viewed inter bourgeoisie conflicts

        ‘In that house one never hesitated to take a stand against the conflicts in which one could recognize “the different fractions of the bourgeoisie.” Neutrality was abhorred. […] Marx hunted neutral souls to the gates of hell’

        (machine translated) from “Gespräche mit Marx und Engels”, section writte by Charles Longuet, Marx’s son in law

        Most people here consider russia to be the lesser of two evils, since it generally does not fill itself with nazi iconography, does not ally with the united states, and does not persecute national minorities to any extent like ukraine does

        • Amaltheamannen
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          7 months ago

          Denying the existence Ukrainian language or culture sounds like persecution to me. Like I absolutely agree Ukraine is an awful country, but Im not convinced Russia is better.

          As far as I understand the Nazis are in the military of Ukraine, not the actual government. Though banning Hungarian and Russian in schools iirc is something a nazi could do… Do you have any sources I could read up on?

          • RaisedFistJoker [she/her]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            edit-2
            7 months ago

            it really depends what you mean by “not the actual government”, what kind of government enlists nazis into its military and makes entire large battalions of them and gives them large combat roles like the defence of key citys (azovstal etc) without being nazis themselves. When zelensky was asked what he thought of the praise of Bandera, a nazi collaborator that massacred jews in ww2 he said

            “There are indisputable heroes. Stepan Bandera is a hero for a certain part of Ukrainians, and this is a normal and cool thing. He was one of those who defended the freedom of Ukraine.”

            https://www.lecanardrépublicain.net/IMG/article_PDF/Volodymyr-Zelensky-on-Stepan-Bandera-He-was-one-of-those_a1006.pdf

            I dont know about you, but me personally i would never call a jew hunting nazi an indisputable hero unless i myself was a nazi.

            Moving on what are youre sources on denying the existance of langauge and culture, heres a statement from putin himself saying persecution on such basis is unjust https://tass.com/politics/1523075. (in response to people being unjustly jailed on such basis, my point being this not that attitude is non existant, it certainly exists, its that it doesnt exist at the very top level, the seat of power as it were)

            Finally, if you think my sources are bullshit or that you cant trust the words of the leaders we can reduce it to its simplest form. If russia and ukraine were equally evil in their actions, russia would still be the lesser evil from my point of view due to me being a communist. Russia winning the war destablises the west, and destabilisation of the west increases the chances of communist movements (and non communist national liberation movements) being more successful in the global south. We can see such national liberation movements in the sahel states right now, who are throwing off the chains of their imperial masters more and more. A world where the US cannot win is a world where more such movements flourish.

            And if you say well russia will become the imperial hegemon, and that will be just as bad as the us, that is an entire different discussion that I am not capable to disprove as it would require showing that russia does not act as an imperial power under lenins definition of imperialism, which would require economic analysis that im not capable of. Its my inclination that russia does not have the power or the ambition to become a unitary hegemon, I cannot imagine a world where the US is dethroned from hegemon and russia ascends to hegemon, while china, with 500 times the industrial capacity of russia, just sits there.

      • TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        7 months ago

        Russia has elections and political parties and separation of powers, it is no more of a ‘dictatorship’ than the USA or any european country.

        • Amaltheamannen
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          7 months ago

          Do you really think Putin won 88% of the vote? Also consider the fact that most of the opposition was barred from even running.

          • TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            7 months ago

            prove election fraud or GTFO with your racist phrenology, if putin can brainwash his people or rig elections so easily with a fraction of america’s GDP then we are fucked and should stop resisting the fucking psychic russian ubermensch lmfao, its the same shit as arguing that china is a 1984 dystopia because the government has 80% or higher approval rating, pure racism. show us the evidence of election fraud so we can evaluate it.