Like many KDE apps, DigiKam can’t see a network share. Which is a real disaster compared to better systems.
It works if you can somehow mount the NAS share. But for non IT people, due to some sort of UX blunder, it’s never been possible to permanently mount a share with any GUI tool. Despite Dolphin being able to see the share. The nearest I got was to install and run a program called Smb4k. This will temporarily mount the share. And needs to be running all the time. But it times out a lot.
It is hard if you don’t know you need to mount the share. How long should people be searching the web for, looking to access the share directly like some apps can do, when they have never even heard of the concept of mounting a share.
Telling non IT people to use some command line or other nerdy hack, with magic words that fail if one single letter is wrong, to do what shouldn’t even be necessary in the first place, is typical gatekeepery that stops so many from using Linux. You might not realise what a huge barrier, such broken usability is, for non IT people. Avoid being part of that barrier.
So somehow they have created and managed SMB sharing in their local environment, but can’t figure this out?
Simply having a SMB share available is just a simple click in dolphin and then you can bookmark it. Easy enough.
For a permanent share (like with Digikam expects) takes a few extra steps, but they are not terribly hard.
I am a bit taken aback with the terms you use: “use some command line or other nerdy hack, with magic words…that shouldnt be necessary in the first place” is over the top annoying. Yes use the command line. That is the easiest way to explain and perform things. Dozens of pictures of clicking things, or a simple direct command that is copy able and repeatable. I will take the latter.
Why would you call telling you computer what to do a “nerdy hack”? This is not “broken usability”, it is efficient. Why do you have such a negative reaction to using a computer in an easy way?
I will say it is a few steps to mount at boot, as you will need to add to fstab, create a access file, and so on. Part of that is linux security. I am not sure how that could be wrapped into a gui, but I suppose it would not be too hard to do, with a need to elevate privileges. If you think this is a barrier to entry, would you be interested in writing this gui?
In Dolphin, yes it’s very easy to access the share. Ideally, DigiKam would work the same way. As do apps in Windows. This is why I say mounting shouldn’t be necessary.
Most computer users are not familiar with such methods. I guess you are not interested in usability. Don’t mix what you find easy and what other, non IT users will find easy. And they will have to learn every step that you already know. The command line fails hugely on usability, learnability and familiarity. As such other OSs don’t expect people to use it. And as such have the majority market share.
Yes, if direct access is not possible, there should be an easy GUI way to mount a share. I’d happily help with the UX.
There is a reason Digikam can’t rely on the SMB connection that dolphin makes. I do the same with my Music library and make it permanent mount at boot.
The command line fails hugely on usability, learnability and familiarity.
No. It EXCELS at usability and learnability. Because it works the same every time. It is shareable, teachable, and precise. GUI’s are sloppy, difficult to explain and tell people what to click on. Difficult for them to explain how to get back to where they were if they get lost.
Repeatable is not what a GUI is good for.
I will say it might be nice if there was a pattern that could be reused, for example if a distro wanted to plan for it. Then again, you are connecting to SMB (windows) share, so the importance is fairly low.
I am looking at a mount now, and it is tempting to make a default file, walk through the questions necessary to create everything, and then execute it. It is only a handful of lines to make the mount point, and then a systemd command to mount with out needing to edit fstab.
You really have to put yourself in the position of a non IT user. They see a blank window with a blinking cursor. No hint at what to do. You know they have already chosen GUI systems. And for good reason. It’s over. The numbers are clear.
Talk to usability insiders. As you have clearly shown you are not one.
Many Linux devs have worked hard to carefully create desktop environments and Apps like Digikam, all GUI based. To give non IT users a chance to use Linux. And make it an inclusive and learnable OS. They hate it when usability outsiders scare people off by telling them to leave their familiar world into a strange and difficult place.
It is not strange or difficult. I am not expecting them to know what to type, I am expecting to have clear instructions as to exactly what they need to type. Which is really hard to convey with a gui. Administration of a computer and sharing functions is so much faster by copy/paste exactly what you expect them to. It is the easiest, most concise method.
In any case: lets get back to the task at hand. I will make a simple GUI that creates the credentials file, the mount point file, the automount file, and finally restarts the system daemon.
I guess it needs to show any errors at that time.
The user will provide some info that I will gather as it goes along (like SMB credentials) and I guess I will include the ability to simply go on without mounting if the network mount point is not available (in case of laptop).
There are a few elevations of privileges to sort out, and to keep it simple I will use Kdialog (for the gui presentation) which will make the code very obvious as it is simply bash behind it all.
After that do you want me to share this with you? I am not sure when I will get it done, but it should be fairly easy. Then I can put it on github I guess.
Realistically, to make this functional, it should be able to ready your current mount points and allow the user to edit, doing error checking etc. That would be a future phase.
The terminal is nothing like familiar GUIs people use daily. To most, the terminal is strange and full of opportunities to mess up.
“so much faster by copy/paste”
It’s not faster when the user needs to go to a separate application first to find the instructions, then find the text to copy. And also search for how to use the terminal, and that it might be called Konsole confusingly. And also to understand if the command did anything. Does it print anything that you need to read? Should you close the terminal afterwards? Should you trust copy pasting from Internet strangers? All this is missing from online help, where they assume people have used the command line before.
Such a GUI app could be launched from Dolphin by right-clicking the share, and selecting a new option “Mount” that would help discoverability.
A standalone app would need:
A clear title. Like “Mount Share”
A ‘Share selecter’ Browser.
The ‘mount point’ definition should have both:
‘Folder Browser’ for manual selection.
‘Default path’ option. Most don’t know where it should be mounted.
‘Credential definition’ needs a ‘Guest/Anonymous’ option for when there is no account defined.
Like many KDE apps, DigiKam can’t see a network share. Which is a real disaster compared to better systems. It works if you can somehow mount the NAS share. But for non IT people, due to some sort of UX blunder, it’s never been possible to permanently mount a share with any GUI tool. Despite Dolphin being able to see the share. The nearest I got was to install and run a program called Smb4k. This will temporarily mount the share. And needs to be running all the time. But it times out a lot.
Ok so there isn’t a gui, but mounting a share at boot is not that hard… seems weird to say it can be done but not the way I want to do it, so I dont.
It is hard if you don’t know you need to mount the share. How long should people be searching the web for, looking to access the share directly like some apps can do, when they have never even heard of the concept of mounting a share. Telling non IT people to use some command line or other nerdy hack, with magic words that fail if one single letter is wrong, to do what shouldn’t even be necessary in the first place, is typical gatekeepery that stops so many from using Linux. You might not realise what a huge barrier, such broken usability is, for non IT people. Avoid being part of that barrier.
So somehow they have created and managed SMB sharing in their local environment, but can’t figure this out?
Simply having a SMB share available is just a simple click in dolphin and then you can bookmark it. Easy enough.
For a permanent share (like with Digikam expects) takes a few extra steps, but they are not terribly hard.
I am a bit taken aback with the terms you use: “use some command line or other nerdy hack, with magic words…that shouldnt be necessary in the first place” is over the top annoying. Yes use the command line. That is the easiest way to explain and perform things. Dozens of pictures of clicking things, or a simple direct command that is copy able and repeatable. I will take the latter.
Why would you call telling you computer what to do a “nerdy hack”? This is not “broken usability”, it is efficient. Why do you have such a negative reaction to using a computer in an easy way?
I will say it is a few steps to mount at boot, as you will need to add to fstab, create a access file, and so on. Part of that is linux security. I am not sure how that could be wrapped into a gui, but I suppose it would not be too hard to do, with a need to elevate privileges. If you think this is a barrier to entry, would you be interested in writing this gui?
In Dolphin, yes it’s very easy to access the share. Ideally, DigiKam would work the same way. As do apps in Windows. This is why I say mounting shouldn’t be necessary. Most computer users are not familiar with such methods. I guess you are not interested in usability. Don’t mix what you find easy and what other, non IT users will find easy. And they will have to learn every step that you already know. The command line fails hugely on usability, learnability and familiarity. As such other OSs don’t expect people to use it. And as such have the majority market share.
Yes, if direct access is not possible, there should be an easy GUI way to mount a share. I’d happily help with the UX.
There is a reason Digikam can’t rely on the SMB connection that dolphin makes. I do the same with my Music library and make it permanent mount at boot.
No. It EXCELS at usability and learnability. Because it works the same every time. It is shareable, teachable, and precise. GUI’s are sloppy, difficult to explain and tell people what to click on. Difficult for them to explain how to get back to where they were if they get lost.
Repeatable is not what a GUI is good for.
I will say it might be nice if there was a pattern that could be reused, for example if a distro wanted to plan for it. Then again, you are connecting to SMB (windows) share, so the importance is fairly low.
I am looking at a mount now, and it is tempting to make a default file, walk through the questions necessary to create everything, and then execute it. It is only a handful of lines to make the mount point, and then a systemd command to mount with out needing to edit fstab.
You really have to put yourself in the position of a non IT user. They see a blank window with a blinking cursor. No hint at what to do. You know they have already chosen GUI systems. And for good reason. It’s over. The numbers are clear. Talk to usability insiders. As you have clearly shown you are not one. Many Linux devs have worked hard to carefully create desktop environments and Apps like Digikam, all GUI based. To give non IT users a chance to use Linux. And make it an inclusive and learnable OS. They hate it when usability outsiders scare people off by telling them to leave their familiar world into a strange and difficult place.
It is not strange or difficult. I am not expecting them to know what to type, I am expecting to have clear instructions as to exactly what they need to type. Which is really hard to convey with a gui. Administration of a computer and sharing functions is so much faster by copy/paste exactly what you expect them to. It is the easiest, most concise method.
In any case: lets get back to the task at hand. I will make a simple GUI that creates the credentials file, the mount point file, the automount file, and finally restarts the system daemon.
I guess it needs to show any errors at that time.
The user will provide some info that I will gather as it goes along (like SMB credentials) and I guess I will include the ability to simply go on without mounting if the network mount point is not available (in case of laptop).
There are a few elevations of privileges to sort out, and to keep it simple I will use Kdialog (for the gui presentation) which will make the code very obvious as it is simply bash behind it all.
After that do you want me to share this with you? I am not sure when I will get it done, but it should be fairly easy. Then I can put it on github I guess.
Realistically, to make this functional, it should be able to ready your current mount points and allow the user to edit, doing error checking etc. That would be a future phase.
“It is not strange”
The terminal is nothing like familiar GUIs people use daily. To most, the terminal is strange and full of opportunities to mess up.
“so much faster by copy/paste”
It’s not faster when the user needs to go to a separate application first to find the instructions, then find the text to copy. And also search for how to use the terminal, and that it might be called Konsole confusingly. And also to understand if the command did anything. Does it print anything that you need to read? Should you close the terminal afterwards? Should you trust copy pasting from Internet strangers? All this is missing from online help, where they assume people have used the command line before.
Such a GUI app could be launched from Dolphin by right-clicking the share, and selecting a new option “Mount” that would help discoverability. A standalone app would need: