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    • spirit@lemmy.worldEnglish
      9815·
      1 year ago

      Update 3: @dessalines@lemmy.ml did stated they (singular) disagree that a genocide is taking place.

      Update 2: My conclusion

      Update: So I dug around a little deeper, and found that

      On another topic, there are rumors circulating that we are fascists or supported genocide. These claims are completely false, and like most viral twitter threads, are coming from a single Mastodon user on a personal vendetta who didn’t provide any sources. Such slander doesn’t deserve any response and is best left ignored.

      Update: More info about @dessalines@lemmy.ml

      • MrFlamey@lemmy.worldEnglish
        387·
        1 year ago

        It’s definitely good to have people like you investigating the backgrounds of key developers, as there might be ulterior motives behind them developing open platforms that compete with established Western companies outside of loving the free web and open source. Thank you!

        However, I wonder how many opinions we disagree with would be unearthed by doing this kind of research on every core developer of Chrome, Windows, MacOS, Google or whatever. I think you would find a lot if you get people to air their honest opinions. In today’s climate, if these people were open about certain opinions they might hold (not saying they do, but statistically it’s likely some do) they would just be fired, so it’s easy for large corporations to shake damage to their reputation from having certain staff members. For OSS it is a bit harder, since although developers can be pushed out, and software can be forked, it’s all open and it’s harder to understate the contribution to the source code etc. that such a person could have contributed.

        It does kind of suck when you hear that developers working on software you like have wildly different worldviews to your own, but sometimes you have to put things in perspective. Having said that, if this guy is the only developer I might feel less than happy about using Lemmy instead of Reddit.

        • Otakeb@lemmy.worldEnglish
          201·
          1 year ago

          Personally, I’d rather my open source, decentralized software be developed by a nearly fanatical communist than a slimy entrepreneur/capitalist. Either could try to pull the rug out from under you, but at least one is internally consistent until then…

          • WolfBearSheep67@lemmy.worldEnglish
            710·
            1 year ago

            I’d rather have open source, decentralized software be developed by none of those groups/slimy individual. Doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive.

            • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.socialEnglish
              111·
              1 year ago

              I mean you’re more than free to start contributing to Lemmy and / or offer to be on the core team. You can fork it and start your own version of it not owned by them. The nice thing about having a communist (or at least an anticapitalist) developing it instead of a capitalist is that you have the freedom to do that. You cannot do that with Twitter, or with Reddit, or with Facebook, or with Instagram.

              Capitalists will not voluntarily do that because it is unprofitable to them. Companies that do end up floundering or dead.

              Idk to me there’s a very real difference between the two and I’d rather have a tankie developing a platform than someone like Elon Musk making it go to shit.

          • xzite@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1013·
            1 year ago

            but at least one is internally consistent until then…

            Having to do the mental gymnastics required to make China not commit genocide does not suggest internal consistency…

      • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.socialEnglish
        172·
        1 year ago

        This is so weird to me lol, maybe I’m just odd but it’s so weird seeing McCarthyism still rearing it’s ugly head after what… 5 decades? I am by no means an ML (can’t stand them as an anarchist) but this is wildly blowing out of proportion what @dessalines@lemmy.ml has said and done.

        I mean like why link a ‘Socialist FAQ’ that’s literally just a ton of links to education on socialism and the different schools of thought it has? Not all communists are tankies (not even most) lol. Just generally shows a lack of familiarity with actual leftists / anticapitalists.

        • bob@lemmy.havocperil.ukEnglish
          132·
          1 year ago

          I think it’s more like 7 decades and I thought the same. Reds-under-the-bed is still a thing!

          • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.socialEnglish
            76·
            1 year ago

            Please stop spamming this in the thread, it’s annoying af.

            Sometimes people just like spreading drama. Other times they just have weird or different beliefs. Accusing someone of having ulterior motives isn’t useful or helpful unless you can demonstrate that this person isn’t just having an internet debate that they feel strongly about.

            • LoboInvernal@lemmy.ptEnglish
              62·
              1 year ago

              Accusing someone of having ulterior motives isn’t useful

              @spirit is making claims out of his ass though and taking lots of upvotes. I don’t agree with spamming but there is no proof the reddit user is Dessalines.

              • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.socialEnglish
                1·
                1 year ago

                Okay, what I’m saying is a vast majority of the time people just say stupid shit online. And that’s it. This is a good way to say it, not ‘what does this person have to gain by doing the thing that internet users have done for forever to earn imaginary internet points? Are they trying to destroy Lemmy?’

      • iturnedintoanewt@lemmy.worldEnglish
        209·
        1 year ago

        Wow…thanks. I had no idea this was ongoing. As someone living in Asia and seeing these issues from up close, these ring close to home. I’ll be paying attention for any of these…moderations.

            • JackOfAllTraits@lemmy.worldEnglish
              222·
              1 year ago

              They moderste lemmy.ml and lemmingrad. Apart from those, in which they are admins, they have zero influence or power anywhere else… Lemmy world and other indtances have completely different people in charge.

            • Talos@lemmy.worldEnglish
              171·
              1 year ago

              The Lemmy.world server is owned by the same guy that owns Mastodon.world. Nothing to do with the Lemmy devs. Just mainstream general interest servers.

          • Nadya@kbin.social
            63·
            1 year ago

            Since you didn’t notice that in that post /u/parentis_shotgun claims to have made Jerboa and links to it - which links to github.com/dessalines/jerboa - you’re not very observant so I’ll provide you with some alternative posts as evidence.

            Step 1) Visit /u/parentis_shotgun’s profile

            Step 2) Old PgDn to load some posts. Find the one that says nothing but “Yes” on it. This post specifically.

            Step 3) Click Context to see which question it is answering

            Step 4) Read the question: “Wait a second, are you the same dessalines that narrated my The State and Revolution by Lenin and Fascism: What it is and how to fight it by Trotsky?”

            Step 5) See /u/parentis_shotgun’s response: “Yes.”

            “Misinformation”.

            What exactly do you get out of defending Tankies?

            E:

            Alternative route #1: Find parentis_shotgun’s post about creating thumb-key - a privacy-conscious Android keyboard made for your thumbs. Notice it links to a Github profile for dessalines.

            Alternative route #2: Find this post where they keep their “communist 101s” on dessalines.github.io/essays/

          • Nadya@kbin.social
            11·
            1 year ago

            You even get a second reply. Because…

            Even if there wasn’t enough evidence that dessalines is parentis_shotgun - it doesn’t matter! dessalines does not deny being a Tankie and makes no efforts to hide their political thoughts. You can go to lemmy.ml and read through dessalines posts. Find the one where they say “I’m not exactly hiding my politics” and link to their essays on Github. Or you can just go to the essays from their Github profile after confirming that the dessalines that is a Lemmy dev is the same dessalines that is admin on Lemmy.ml and find the link to their essays that way.

            There you can see they attempt to answer many questions. Some generic to Communism - but many more defending Tankie talking points such as:

            Did the Soviet Union manufacture a famine in Ukraine? What about the Holodomor?

            Where they link to articles that deny the genocide.

            And also defend Stalin by linking to revisionist propaganda:

            What about Stalin? Didn’t he kill millions?

            And deny that the Cheka secret police murdered millions of people as ordered by The State:

            Did the Soviet Union repress and kill millions of people?

            They deny the Tiananmen Square massacre - calling it a propaganda hoax:

            What about the Tiananmen square massacre?

            Their defense of China’s 1-child policy? “60,000,000 girls weren’t killed from infanticide. Only 35,000,000 were.” and they provide no other explanation for the severe gender imbalance that China has:

            Did China really kill / commit infanticide on millions of girls during the 1-child policy?

            There isn’t any need to prove that dessalines is parentis_shotgun in order to claim that dessalines is a Tankie. dessalines is very openly a Tankie. One only needs to read the political thoughts that they openly share.

            • proletariatnerd@iusearchlinux.fyi
              1·
              1 year ago

              Did the Soviet Union manufacture a famine in Ukraine? What about the Holodomor?

              The famine existed, but it was not fabricated. It is proven there were many factors in play, such as climate that interfered with the crops.

              What about Stalin? Didn’t he kill millions?

              This is just USA cold war propaganda to make communism look bad, USA alone killed even more and still does to this day. Want to talk about fabricate famine? USA is the only country forcing embargo against Cuba!

              Their defense of China’s 1-child policy? “60,000,000 girls weren’t killed from infanticide. Only 35,000,000 were.” and they provide no other explanation for the severe gender imbalance that China has:

              Are you implying the government killed girls?

              You are so inebriated in western propaganda it is disgusting.

              • Nadya@kbin.social
                11·
                1 year ago

                The famine existed, but it was not fabricated. It is proven there were many factors in play, such as climate that interfered with the crops.

                “Ukraine always suffered famine on a 7 year cycle. This was that cycle.”

                Yea I’ve heard the Tankie excuses before. Next you’ll blame the kulaks for not selling their grain to The State because they were too greedy to accept The State’s price for the grain.

                This is just USA cold war propaganda to make communism look bad, USA alone killed even more and still does to this day. Want to talk about fabricate famine? USA is the only country forcing embargo against Cuba!

                So that we’re 100% clear - you’re denying the existence of О операции по репрессированию бывших кулаков, уголовников и других антисоветских элементов? I don’t want to dance around the subject.

                I’m not here to defend the US. Fuck the US too.

                Are you implying the government killed girls?

                The government? Goodness, no! The entire purpose of The State is to make sure that there are enough layers of indirection and bureaucracy such that no blame could ever befall The State. The blame will always be at a lower, more expendable level that can be only denied or blamed as a defector or someone disobeying “actual” State policy.

                A not insignificant number of parents from villages where State officials wouldn’t look the other way? Certainly. You don’t end up with a gender ratio this fucked otherwise.

                The easy way to get around the one-child policy was to not register your child with The State - as pointed out by the Tankie defense of the policy. In order to do that you needed an official willing to look the other way.

                • proletariatnerd@iusearchlinux.fyi
                  1·
                  1 year ago

                  Yea I’ve heard the Tankie excuses before. Next you’ll blame the kulaks for not selling their grain to The State because they were too greedy to accept The State’s price for the grain.

                  Wow, refuted. I am no Tankie, at least not by the definition you linked lol.

                  So that we’re 100% clear - you’re denying the existence of О операции по репрессированию бывших кулаков, уголовников и других антисоветских элементов? I don’t want to dance around the subject.

                  I want to know where you get your number from. You mentioned he killed millions. Look, I don’t defend his actions, Fuck Stalin, but all these numbers are absurd!

                  The government? Goodness, no! The entire purpose of The State is to make sure that there are enough layers of indirection and bureaucracy such that no blame could ever befall The State. The blame will always be at a lower, more expendable level that can be only denied or blamed as a defector or someone disobeying “actual” State policy.

                  A not insignificant number of parents from villages where State officials wouldn’t look the other way? Certainly. You don’t end up with a gender ratio this fucked otherwise.

                  The easy way to get around the one-child policy was to not register your child with The State - as pointed out by the Tankie defense of the policy. In order to do that you needed an official willing to look the other way.

                  So you mean the purpose of this police was to make parents kill their children?

                  • Nadya@kbin.social
                    11·
                    1 year ago

                    You’re clearly not here to have a discussion or engaging in good faith. I said exactly what I said.

                    The existence of State Officials is to impose the will and authority of The State. The State is often very intentionally vague so that they can claim to enforce whatever it is they wish to enforce without appearing to contradict themselves. It is a very deliberate tactic and the CCP is not the first or only government to do so. Most government laws are written in this manner to be intentionally broad or vague so that it can be enforced how The State wishes it to be enforced because The State exists only to increase and broaden The State’s power. If the public interprets it differently and shows support for it - even better! This is how countries get things like the Patriot Act passed with widespread public approval until the public becomes aware of how The State interprets the law. The State’s primary job is to ensure that the public does not become aware and to deflect and lie as much as possible to defend The State’s position and The State’s authority of power.

                    Stalinist apologist
                    not a Tankie

                    Right. Giving off real “I don’t deny the Holocaust but 6.000.000 is looking kinda sus. Smells of Jewish propaganda.” vibes.

          • Nadya@kbin.social
            54·
            1 year ago

            Since you didn’t notice that in that post /u/parentis_shotgun claims to have made Jerboa and links to it - which links to github.com/dessalines/jerboa - you’re not very observant so I’ll provide you with some alternative posts as evidence.

            Step 1) Visit /u/parentis_shotgun’s profile

            Step 2) Old PgDn to load some posts. Find the one that says nothing but “Yes” on it. This post specifically.

            Step 3) Click Context to see which question it is answering

            Step 4) Read the question: “Wait a second, are you the same dessalines that narrated my The State and Revolution by Lenin and Fascism: What it is and how to fight it by Trotsky?”

            Step 5) See /u/parentis_shotgun’s response: “Yes.”

            “Misinformation”.

            Ask yourself: What exactly do you get out of defending Tankies?

            Alternative route #1: Find parentis_shotgun’s post about creating thumb-key - a privacy-conscious Android keyboard made for your thumbs. Notice it links to a Github profile for dessalines.

            Alternative route #2: Find this post where they keep their “communist 101s” on dessalines.github.io/essays/

              • Nadya@kbin.social
                43·
                1 year ago

                I dislike genocide apologists about as much as I dislike liars and people who spread misinformation. It’s trivially easy to confirm who /u/parentis_shotgun is - so calling it misinformation is blatantly lying especially when their first point is blatantly wrong.

                People can be OK with the dev being a Tankie (“separate the art from the artist” which is a terrible philosophy in its own right but people are welcome to believe in it this more of a philosophical difference) but denying that the dev is a Tankie is where I cross the line. The dev is a Tankie. Do with that information what you will but there is no denying it.

                  • Nadya@kbin.social
                    11·
                    1 year ago

                    See: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ziq-tankies-and-the-left-unity-scam

                    But if that’s far too much reading - here’s a TL;DR that’s two paragraphs from it that sums it up nicely.

                    Tankies celebrate Lenin and Trotsky’s massacres of socialist revolutionaries, including the Mensheviks, the sailors of Petrograd, the Socialist Revolutionaries, the anarchists, unaffiliated peasants who had their food confiscated and so on. Tankies also celebrate murdering ‘kulaks’, a word they use to describe any peasant that resisted Soviet imperialism, but especially the Ukrainian peasants that resisted sending all their food to Russia, which they rightly guessed would lead to mass-starvation and one of the worst atrocities in history; the catastrophic Holodomor man-made famine.

                    A tankie is anyone who presents themselves as a ‘communist’, but engages in apologism for torture, slavery, imprisonment, imperialism, capitalism, genocide and the erasure of actually liberatory movements. A tankie is anyone that claims communism can be achieved by replacing a state with another state. A tankie is anyone that will swear up and down that state-capitalism, dictator personality cults and ecosystem-destroying mass-industry will eventually lead to communism through the “withering away” of the brutal state that they uphold.

      • kestrel7@kbin.social
        84·
        1 year ago

        I believe those people saying lemmy is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy were being sarcastic. Thanks for rounding this up though, I appreciate people who do the due diligence.

      • CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
        74·
        1 year ago

        another mod said that @muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml is funded by the NED. Source: https://archive.is/G5Dh7

        lmao you actually believe that us joking around that we’re being funded by the NED is evidence that muad’dibber is funded by them?

        For your information the NED is a CIA front created by an Act of Congress, it’s a tool of regime change established after the CIA lost their capabilities to simply go change presidents in other countries in the 60s-70s.

        The running joke on Lemmygrad is that we’re all feds. You’re wayyy out of your depth lol

        • A_A@lemmy.worldEnglish
          19·
          1 year ago

          You mean to say : except for that excellent comment you replied to ?

          • Snowpix@yiffit.netEnglish
            76·
            1 year ago

            I’m referring to the comments section on the post he linked to, where half the comments are tankies trying to defend the actions of the admins who were banning users and calling them racist for criticizing the CCP/Kremlin.

      • rainfern@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1351·
        1 year ago

        You leave reddit because the ceo introduces shitty pricing but you don’t mind the main devs being literal fascists?

        • Rick@lemmy.worldEnglish
          47·
          1 year ago

          The project is open source and anyone can create instances, that’s why its irrelevant.

          • rainfern@lemmy.worldEnglish
            613·
            1 year ago

            The way it works in practice is that the largest instances are where most people go. What is stopping those devs from imposing their views on the community, e.g. by censoring?

            • LufyCZ@lemmy.worldEnglish
              21·
              1 year ago

              Nice thing is, the devs have no power about instances they don’t run.

              They just write the code for them, and since it’s open source, we could see any sketchy code and just fork it away

            • Rick@lemmy.worldEnglish
              12·
              1 year ago

              If that happens word gets out and people switch and currently the instances ran by the OG tankies are actively trying to dissuade people from joining.

        • orcrist@lemm.eeEnglish
          22·
          1 year ago

          Reddit is in hot water because of its actions as they affect various user groups, not because the CEO has a political view that’s undesirable.

          Of course political protests could be done, but that’s not what happened here, and you know this.

        • Defaced@lemmy.worldEnglish
          191·
          1 year ago

          The beauty of federated networks is you can avoid the platforms with these kinds of people altogether. I typically avoid lemmy.ml altogether unless I don’t have a choice and even then it’s pretty easily to find alternatives.

        • thedarkfly@feddit.nlEnglish
          17·
          1 year ago

          Reddit’s admins are taking decisions based on their worldviews and objectives that affect the content of Reddit, i.e. what we can talk about, what we can do, what tools we can use, what information we can access…

          As of my current knowledge, the worldviews of Lemmy’s devs (that I certainly don’t share) don’t affect content on instances that they do not administrate or moderate. Even if they were building and shaping instances around hatespeech (which I don’t know they do), I’d simply block them and let the police and justice act on the potential crimes or offence they may do.

        • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.socialEnglish
          83·
          1 year ago

          Girl calm down, please just take a step back. Maybe read up on communism or communists / the far left before blaring off takes like this. I’m not an ML and not a fan of them as an anarchist, but this is suchhhhh an overreaction to what they actually said.

          Additionally if you don’t like the dev team, then fork it. Or volunteer to be on the core team. Submit some PRs. Start your own alternative. One of the cool things about having anticapitalists develop software is that it is open and you can do that. It actively does the opposite of what capitalism wants us to do. I think just that fact alone should make you pause and maybe reassess the language you’re using (Hitler and other fascists rose to power actively aided and funded by capitalists because it helped retain their power).