To be honest I had no idea that people from this instance were doing it until one troll post bragging about getting us banned from Beehaw and explained how he did it, along with a comic book supervillian diatribe about how the Fediverse isn’t safe and long live Reddit.
I saw the same post the comment above is referring to and their description is accurate. And I also saw the offending post they put on beehaw. Some low effort troll homophobic thing. Their posts on both beehaw and sh.itjust.works were both quickly down voted and removed I think, because I couldn’t find either again shortly after I first saw it.
I’ve seen DDOS attacks launched between rival guilds of MMORPGs. People will find an excuse to be assholes to each other online.
The defederation of Beehaw.org to protect itself is a feature, not a bug. It sucks for the people involved, but I’m liking how the community has managed to come together in light of the actions. Defederating works: it allowed Beehaw.org to ban the trolls and continue their community discussions.
And I say this as a lemmy.world user who was (and still am) cut-off from Beehaw.org. I’d like to get access restored there ASAP, but you know, I’m glad to see that the new tools available here on the Fediverse that didn’t exist in Reddit-world.
Future attacks, invasions, and other such rivalries between communities will only grow bigger, harsher, more serious as time goes on. Consider this whole situation to be just a test of the times to come.
Agreed. There are still more granular tools missing, but a core feature of a federated system is having instances with different ToS, different Codes of Conduct, and when two instances can’t see eye to eye… just defederate and continue business as usual.
On Reddit, mods would ban people “by association” for posting on subreddits they seemed incompatible with theirs… and creating alternate accounts to bypass those bans was considered “ban evasion”, a site-wide offense. That’s not even a concept in the Fediverse.
It might keep happening, but there will inevitably be diminishing returns.
If you DDOS an instance, what effect will that have on other instances? They probably won’t get be able to comment on posts from that intsance, which is pretty much what you already get when the servers get overloaded. Meanwhile, other instances run fine, and they display the last update from that fed (excluding any edits, which are only displayed if you’re on that local fed anyway).
I’m sure it will be a growing problem, however the problem will inherently be localised.
What I really want to see is some way of aligning fed comms across different instances. For example, the “Lemmy” comm, or “AskLemmy” or “Memes” comm could be combined across all Lemmy instances, so long as they are all under the control of the same mod team, or at least a group of teams working together. Federation shouldn’t be completely exclusive and separate, unless it is advantegous to be; there should be the option of combining feds, perhaps not by default but at least if desired. The word “Federation” itself implies a central organisation, made up of separate yet coordinated entities, after all.
Who gets so weirdly defensive and territorial over a website? Not even their own one at that? I loved spending time on Reddit but I can’t imagine finding other website and deliberately trying to make them a shittier place because I like Reddit.
People do this for just about anything, unfortunately. Review bombing video games that compete with their favorite game, vandalizing things in the colors of the sports team that’s playing against their favorite team, and so on. From the most insignificant internet fandom squabble to genocide. Our brains love tribalism, and if we don’t have strong principles of cooperation and peace, it always seems to crop up.
just a heads up, in the past beehaw has accused other instances of brigadding, and being bigots over disagreements that had nothing to do with the such (I know that becuase that was story 3 and 4 respectivly) there is a decent chance that they have done the blocking over a difrent reason (like to exert a level of control) and then back justified. I will be really honest, do not take the beehaw admins word at face value for anything
How though? The fediverse is… Federated. They can hop from server to server and be annoying to their heart’s content and everyone on every federated server will get exposed to it. That and the traditional tools of the trade whereby if your account ever gets banned, you just make a new one.
Instances can decide to federate only with other instances that share a common Code of Conduct.
That means the LGBTI can have their own set of federated instances, the Nazi can have their own set, the NSFW can have their own set, and so on. There is no requirement for every instance to federate with every other one.
every instance is accoutable for the actions of its users. if an instance is not vetting/managing its users wholesale then it gets defederated by other instances. basicially the network self-sorts. abuse instances get lumped to gather to bother each other.
we are always going to have individual users that try to game and abuse the system. email (another federated system) has evolved quite a few defences against just this class of attack - its not perfect, but it is manageable. you will end up with instances that are tightly content moderated, instances that are lightly content moderated and instances that are essentially 4chan or worse.
I am pretty sure we can build in mechanisms to make this tolerable. just my ramblings on the issue.
If we can’t say naughty words on lemmy I’ll have to find something else. Can’t there be a website with a middle ground between 4th reich HQ and baby preschool?
Can’t there be a website with a middle ground between 4th reich HQ and baby preschool?
Sometimes it feels like the internet is in an unstable equilibrium. A space starts off as a blank slate, not pulled in any particular direction. Then as soon as it gets a critical mass of either miserable jerks or stuck-up prudes, it spirals in that direction until it’s inhospitable to the average person.
I’m not a massive fan of the name to be attached to my name, but the admin is such a cool upstanding dude and I like their policies that I don’t think I’ll go anywhere else and I’ll just stick this out and hope the “default” communities end up elsewhere because of this defederation. Beehaw have gave me the same pretentious vibes that spez had given me to do with Reddit. So good riddance for now I guess.
I want away with people with superiority complex and gatekeeping tendencies. The internet should be free so we can expose the shitheads and oust them for the awful people they are, as individuals, and not generalising everyone around them just because they happen to live on the same street as the loud arsehole. We hate him too.
To be honest I had no idea that people from this instance were doing it until one troll post bragging about getting us banned from Beehaw and explained how he did it, along with a comic book supervillian diatribe about how the Fediverse isn’t safe and long live Reddit.
The hell, lol… do you have a link to that post?
I saw the same post the comment above is referring to and their description is accurate. And I also saw the offending post they put on beehaw. Some low effort troll homophobic thing. Their posts on both beehaw and sh.itjust.works were both quickly down voted and removed I think, because I couldn’t find either again shortly after I first saw it.
Damn… Yeah, to be honest, it makes me understand things from beehaw’s perspective quite a bit, then.
I probably could find one but it’s best not to give trolls the attention they seek.
Good idea, and no worries!
This will keep happening.
I’ve seen DDOS attacks launched between rival guilds of MMORPGs. People will find an excuse to be assholes to each other online.
The defederation of Beehaw.org to protect itself is a feature, not a bug. It sucks for the people involved, but I’m liking how the community has managed to come together in light of the actions. Defederating works: it allowed Beehaw.org to ban the trolls and continue their community discussions.
And I say this as a lemmy.world user who was (and still am) cut-off from Beehaw.org. I’d like to get access restored there ASAP, but you know, I’m glad to see that the new tools available here on the Fediverse that didn’t exist in Reddit-world.
Future attacks, invasions, and other such rivalries between communities will only grow bigger, harsher, more serious as time goes on. Consider this whole situation to be just a test of the times to come.
Agreed. There are still more granular tools missing, but a core feature of a federated system is having instances with different ToS, different Codes of Conduct, and when two instances can’t see eye to eye… just defederate and continue business as usual.
On Reddit, mods would ban people “by association” for posting on subreddits they seemed incompatible with theirs… and creating alternate accounts to bypass those bans was considered “ban evasion”, a site-wide offense. That’s not even a concept in the Fediverse.
It might keep happening, but there will inevitably be diminishing returns.
If you DDOS an instance, what effect will that have on other instances? They probably won’t get be able to comment on posts from that intsance, which is pretty much what you already get when the servers get overloaded. Meanwhile, other instances run fine, and they display the last update from that fed (excluding any edits, which are only displayed if you’re on that local fed anyway).
I’m sure it will be a growing problem, however the problem will inherently be localised.
What I really want to see is some way of aligning fed comms across different instances. For example, the “Lemmy” comm, or “AskLemmy” or “Memes” comm could be combined across all Lemmy instances, so long as they are all under the control of the same mod team, or at least a group of teams working together. Federation shouldn’t be completely exclusive and separate, unless it is advantegous to be; there should be the option of combining feds, perhaps not by default but at least if desired. The word “Federation” itself implies a central organisation, made up of separate yet coordinated entities, after all.
Who gets so weirdly defensive and territorial over a website? Not even their own one at that? I loved spending time on Reddit but I can’t imagine finding other website and deliberately trying to make them a shittier place because I like Reddit.
People do this for just about anything, unfortunately. Review bombing video games that compete with their favorite game, vandalizing things in the colors of the sports team that’s playing against their favorite team, and so on. From the most insignificant internet fandom squabble to genocide. Our brains love tribalism, and if we don’t have strong principles of cooperation and peace, it always seems to crop up.
just a heads up, in the past beehaw has accused other instances of brigadding, and being bigots over disagreements that had nothing to do with the such (I know that becuase that was story 3 and 4 respectivly) there is a decent chance that they have done the blocking over a difrent reason (like to exert a level of control) and then back justified. I will be really honest, do not take the beehaw admins word at face value for anything
such users will eventually be relegated to their own little isolated fediverse.
How though? The fediverse is… Federated. They can hop from server to server and be annoying to their heart’s content and everyone on every federated server will get exposed to it. That and the traditional tools of the trade whereby if your account ever gets banned, you just make a new one.
and its certainly part of the reason gab.com decided to deactivate federation from their implementation of mastodon.
yeah, but they all want to be together. For other examples look at shitposter.club noagendasocial.com etc.
Instances can decide to federate only with other instances that share a common Code of Conduct.
That means the LGBTI can have their own set of federated instances, the Nazi can have their own set, the NSFW can have their own set, and so on. There is no requirement for every instance to federate with every other one.
every instance is accoutable for the actions of its users. if an instance is not vetting/managing its users wholesale then it gets defederated by other instances. basicially the network self-sorts. abuse instances get lumped to gather to bother each other.
we are always going to have individual users that try to game and abuse the system. email (another federated system) has evolved quite a few defences against just this class of attack - its not perfect, but it is manageable. you will end up with instances that are tightly content moderated, instances that are lightly content moderated and instances that are essentially 4chan or worse.
I am pretty sure we can build in mechanisms to make this tolerable. just my ramblings on the issue.
The internet was a mistake
I mean, the url literally contains shit.
If we can’t say naughty words on lemmy I’ll have to find something else. Can’t there be a website with a middle ground between 4th reich HQ and baby preschool?
Sometimes it feels like the internet is in an unstable equilibrium. A space starts off as a blank slate, not pulled in any particular direction. Then as soon as it gets a critical mass of either miserable jerks or stuck-up prudes, it spirals in that direction until it’s inhospitable to the average person.
I’m not a massive fan of the name to be attached to my name, but the admin is such a cool upstanding dude and I like their policies that I don’t think I’ll go anywhere else and I’ll just stick this out and hope the “default” communities end up elsewhere because of this defederation. Beehaw have gave me the same pretentious vibes that spez had given me to do with Reddit. So good riddance for now I guess.
I want away with people with superiority complex and gatekeeping tendencies. The internet should be free so we can expose the shitheads and oust them for the awful people they are, as individuals, and not generalising everyone around them just because they happen to live on the same street as the loud arsehole. We hate him too.
No, it’s a reference to sh UNIX program and IT sector
Wait so someone did it intentionally??? I had no idea that someone was trying to get it defederated on purpose
That makes me a lot more sense now