In California, a high school teacher complains that students watch Netflix on their phones during class. In Maryland, a chemistry teacher says students use gambling apps to place bets during the school day.
Around the country, educators say students routinely send Snapchat messages in class, listen to music and shop online, among countless other examples of how smartphones distract from teaching and learning.
The hold that phones have on adolescents in America today is well-documented, but teachers say parents are often not aware to what extent students use them inside the classroom. And increasingly, educators and experts are speaking with one voice on the question of how to handle it: Ban phones during classes.
I may be a creaking ancient, but is the policy not “get in trouble if your phone is seen in class, or even taken away”?
It used to be, but nowadays it seems that students don’t really give a shit. They’ll downright just refuse to do what a teacher/other figure of authority will ask/tell them to do.
Yeah, so problem isn’t phones. Problem is that teachers don’t have enough authority. If teachers cannot take away the phone, then just toss them out.
I feel like this “ban phones” is getting common but it does not fix the actual problem of teachers not being able to keep discipline in class.
Can’t they just be asked to leave class if they refuse to cooperate or have some other kind of sanction imposed such as a complaint to the parents or a deduction in the grade?
The problem is parents arguing that they want their kids to have them at all times. Then they call and text their kids all day during school. I even had a football coach call one of my students during class.
The culture of instant communication at all times is really killing our kids’ education. Parents just need to back the fuck off.
I hate to even say this but now in America you can go straight for the top shelf drama and say your kid needs a phone in case of a school shooting.
What good does that do when the parents go pick it up that day and give it to the kid? It’s the parents not following through with the punishment and cutting the authority of the school off at the knees.
It used to be, but then the parents get involved and have a hissy fit. They say f it, I don’t get paid enough for this extra stress.
Why were tamagotchis and gameboys and cellphones banned in class when I was growing up but not these days?
My school banned cd and mp3 players even. Was annoying because my bus ride to school was a little over an hour.
It’s a cultural shift. everyone in the world now uses technology at all times (even adults, in the past it was only the kids glued to phones). So the problem isn’t actually schools, but the world.
Best part was telling the library the cd I borrowed was with security.
Funding crisis
I think there are a few reasons
We all use cellphones in the real world, so it’s important kids do in school so they’re not at a disadvantage.
It’s how the parents stay in contact with their kids. If they text their children they don’t want to wait till school is over for the response.
It lets the parents spy on the kids (If my tamagotchi alerted my mother every time I tried to masturbate, she’d probably insist I keep it on me at all times).
It’s good for a distraction and keeps kids from acting out in class due to boredom.
It’s how the parents stay in contact with their kids. If they text their children they don’t want to wait till school is over for the response.
What need is there to stay in permanent contact with your kid while it is in school? Outside of emergencies, there is literally nothing you can ask them that will change their schedule until school is over.
“Hey son, do you know where that USB stick I loaned you last night wound up? I need it for a presentation.”
“Can you pick your little sister up from soccer practice on your way home from school? Work is asking me to stay late”
“Hey honey, I’m not going to be able to pick you up today, can you see if your friend Brandon can give you a ride?”
I thought of these, and dozens of other examples, in seconds. There are many, MANY possible reasons why a parent might want to get in touch with their kid and get an answer. I feel like anyone who isn’t a complete dumbass would be able to see that.
Are any of those examples of stuff you need to know before next recess? I mean, none of them sound more important than the kid getting a decent education.
Fuck that shit. Even if i did have a phone, I am still not obliged to answer that immediately. I am currently busy. Respect my time.
Oh yeah, parents love there children ignoring them. Surely there will be no repercussions such as having your entire phone taken away if you’re not going to use it to respond to the person who pays for it.
All parents respect their children as individuals and absolutely don’t consider them to be property.
helicopter parenting is not a good thing.
Convenience, peace of mind, etc.
Having immediate instant access to your child is a convenience adults don’t want to give up.
Nah, i trust my kids school to contact me if they need to.
It’s more about your needs, not emergencies. Text your kid what them to do when they’re home, 3 rolls around they text you back saying they made plans sorry. Now that chore you wanted done before you were home isn’t getting done and you’ve gone about your whole day under the assumption it would happen
Friggin teach your kid they can’t make plans without checking with you first, then? Besides, what if you text them at noon and they made plans with their friend at 10am? How is that any different?
Friggin teach your kid they can’t make plans without checking with you first, then?
Kids, famous for following instructions and total obedience
Besides, what if you text them at noon and they made plans with their friend at 10am? How is that any different?
Then you’d know immediately, and can make other plans or tell them no and not have them be super pissy at you for a week for forcing them to cancel their plans to do chores.
That doesn’t really sound like a “need” situation.
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If my tamagotchi alerted my mother every time I tried to masturbate, she’d probably insist I keep it on me at all times
That’s weird man, why would your mum want to know when you wank?
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I wouldn’t say most Americans. Maybe just like half, at the most. It really just depends on the region. There are plenty of people here that think that shit is just as weird and creepy as you do.
So she can bring the turkey baster and try for a little brother.
yeah there was no need for any of that. what has changed?
i grew up on planet piss so i don’t know what you just said
This is a result of the US teaching for arbitrary ass tests, pushing bullshit curriculums, and using 40 hour school weeks + homework as a prepping ground for their shitty 9-5 future job, while underpaying + under supporting teachers. This isn’t a “moody kids with phone” problem. Are phones an issue in classrooms everywhere? Yes. Could kids use less screentime? Yes. Is the US schooling system a well studied topic of how not to construct teaching curriculums for children? Also yes.
Yours is the first comment I see that thinks further than “phones bad, mkay”. Thanks for that. I am a teacher myself, and I don’t see the phones themselves being the problem, but the fact that the curriculum is totally outdated and irrelevant to this generation and the students know this. I have personally fought to get some ‘technology weeks’ (where I teach 3D modelling, animation and programming) and the phones stay in the students pockets for the entirety of those classes (without me telling them to!), because the subject is relevant, interesting and actually requires for them to think creatively instead of just memorising facts.
(: thanks. I’m studying to be a teacher in Europe but grew up with the standard SAT American educational experience. It was miserable and my whole life I was always “the problem student”, and I was “smart but never applied myself”. Learning about it now, I realize I was a kid that needed support that was outside of the standard, and my problems were caused by the system itself being an unbending machine. It’s really depressing to think how many other “problem” kids were in my classes over the years that were just trying to seek help but didn’t know how to express it and were completely failed by the system.
While I agree students shouldn’t be distracted with their phones during class I don’t think enacting a law is the best remedy for the malady. This aught to be resolved by school district or even just a classroom policy.
The issue with local policy like that is that school boards or individual teachers are hugely susceptible to parental rage. Countless teachers will talk about how every parent has some reason why little Timmy just absolutely must have his TikTok machine on him at all times, just in case his mom needs to text him and can’t be bothered to call the school office.
Having some state-level precedent makes this much easier for local officials, who can just say that they’re following state guidelines.
has some reason why little Timmy just absolutely must have his TikTok machine on him at all times, just in case his mom needs to text him and can’t be bothered to call the school office
And that’s a problem why exactly? Why is every comment here pretending that there is either being glued to the screen of your phone or having it locked away, no inbetween?
Schools can somehow enforce completely rediculous clothign regulations but “the phone stays in your bag unless it’s an emergency” is somehow impossible because it’s some kind of law of nature that you must stare at the screen 24/7.
Do you want to have to watch your 25+ students every minute to enforce your rule, or would you like to teach your lesson?
Actually yes. I want the students watched because that’s part of teaching. Ignoring them to the point it’s extra work to even look at them once a minute while while reproducing some book verbally or in writing is not.
That’s a fair point. But what’s worse for a student, not paying attention in class or getting a cop sent into the classroom to arrest/assault them?
If it’s a law, and the school has a cop on premises it’s just a question of when will a teacher ask a cop to deal with it.
I am not sure if a law enforced by the government and courtrooms without much room for exception is the best idea. What if a student genuinely needs a phone in class?
Why couldn’t the precedent be a school policy similar to how some schools might have a uniform policy? Why would it be easier to enforce a uniform policy than a no phone policy?
Also, what is the difference between a highschool and a college interms of phone use during class?
To be very clear, I was not suggesting that a cop arrest a student for opening Instagram.
My point is that schools will be significantly more able to resist parental pressure when the school boards quite literally do not have the authority to make the decision. Perhaps there is some room for exceptions with legitimate need, but I’d argue that the bar needs to be pretty high for that, because again, it was in fact possible for students to attend school without phones for essentially all of human history. If a parent really needs to get a message to a student, they can call the office.
You are assuming that the only reason for a student to have a smartphone in class is to make a call.
Besides special needs students that may require their own set of regulations if laws are to be drafted. We are only considering what smartphones are currently capable of. What if in the future they are capable of things that are considered essential learning tools? If a law was passed to blanket ban specific devices or sweep up even more technology then it will be hard to revoke when required.
The school system already has all the tools it needs to deal with distractions in the classroom. The issue at hand seems to be more a systemic one than a technological one.
I’m not against some system of qualified exceptions, though they’d need to be very tight or you’ll suddenly find every parent discovering their kid’s own special need.
The school system already has all the tools it needs to deal with distractions in the classroom.
From conversations I’ve had with teachers, this is not at all remotely consistent with what they report.
I am not a teacher and not part of the school system right now. Are schools no longer allowed to send kids to the principal’s office? Or send a letter to their parents? Or issue detention? Or is it that none of those methods help? Is a teacher’s only course of action to remind students to not look at their phones during class?
When I read the article and the teacher realized that as long as the students looking at their phones were quiet it was fine it really just seemed to me like that teacher failed. If a parent said that, I would also think they failed.
There have always been distractions in the classroom and unless we are talking about a diagnosis of addiction, smartphone uses shouldn’t be treated differently.
“There have always been distractions in the classroom and unless we are talking about a diagnosis of addiction, smartphone uses shouldn’t be treated differently.”
If that’s what it comes down to then, fine. Maybe some serious research should be done in the subject.
But, until then why allow something in classrooms that isn’t just a simple distraction. It’s a tool with lots of uses that should never be allowed in school (and I’m not just talking about cheating).
It’s also an easy method of bullying that can be very difficult to stay ahead of.
I don’t have kids, and when I was in school no one had phones, so I’m way out of the loop, but there were various electronic devices that could be a distraction. Portable music players, handheld games, even a graphing calculator in a non-math or science class, any one of these would have been confiscated if used during class.
I can not think of a single reason a student should have access to a phone during class that can’t be solved another way.
I don’t think the issue is that teachers don’t want to take away the distractions, it’s more that they aren’t given the needed authority any more.
Students have notably less respect for their teachers and will often simply refuse to obey, and physically forcing them is obviously out of the question. Not to mention the absolute shitstorm that breaks over any teacher when one of the students complains at home and so invokes the fury of a helicopter parent.
We used to sneak Tiger electronic handheld games into class. Just put it in your lap and pretend you were reading the textbook.
I mean yeah, we got caught sometimes. But not often enough to stop doing it.
The scourge in my grade school was Rubik’s Cubes.
What I actually like about phones in classrooms is a transparency. Every fuck up like teacher being rude or kids picking fights with each other would be recorded from a couple of angles. 20-30 teens collected together in a small room and feel bored is a recipe for something to happen, especially when teacher is that bad at getting their attention. That’s a highlighted reason why the same law was introduced in my country - to defend teachers from responsibility while they are to indocrinate youth with things even kids don’t find believable and use force if necessary.
If you are into surveillance wouldn’t it be easier to just install cameras everywhere and record everything? Then phone can stay away and locked.
To be clear, I’m not advocating for this, it sounds like a 1984 nightmare. It’s just that you don’t need kids with phones to enact surveillance
As someone with severe ADHD, if I don’t have something to listen to(through headphones obviously) or to mess with in my hands, I can pay attention to about 3 words before I am completely distracted with how the ceiling tiling looks. I get that a lot of students simply don’t pay attention as a result of their phone, but for some of us, it’s the only reason we can pay attention.
Not to mention, ebooks are a thing, and when you’re pirating them you don’t have to worry about overdue fees or your book getting stolen/damaged.
Final point, a lot of my teachers were dogshit, so learning from Wikipedia and other sources was vastly more entertaining and informative than listening to them try to explain addition to that dumbass in the back for the 8th time when he can’t even read
would have been stolen*
When the school shootings 100% stop and the bullying dealt with sure I’m willing to revisit this but not a chance in hell am I sending my kid to school without a way to reach me.
I like the idea of the cell phone cubby. It’s there if an emergency arises, but out of reach otherwise. It’s a good solid middle ground.
And who is watching those cubbies? Better be locked that’s a lot of money just sitting around. Will you have time to unlock in an emergency though?
I mean, it’s right there in the room where everyone can see it. No reason they can’t have it between classes. Just hang it on the wall during class and face minor consequences for not putting it up and getting caught with it. It’s not a big deal
On the other hand, this is how we know about teachers doing things they absolutely shouldn’t do.
I read books in class. I drew pictures in class. I just looked out the window and daydreamed. Kids aren’t going to pay attention just because you take away their phones.
EDIT: I’m honestly amazed people are against that. Are you not aware that this is why we have videos like this that expose racist teachers?
https://abc7.com/fontana-sequoia-middle-school-teacher-racial-slur/13092208/
I’m bored and could use the downvotes, so here are a bunch more examples of students filming teachers doing things that are unacceptable or just plain illegal in class because they have their phones:
https://www.wdbo.com/news/news/local/student-films-teacher-whipping-students-belt/nmJzW/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/student-teacher-qanon-video-shouting-b1951071.html
https://www.yourtango.com/news/video-math-teacher-mimicking-native-american-culture
https://www.yourtango.com/news/california-teacher-robert-bean-threatening-slam-student-against-wall
Wow, that math one! They did the same thing in my kid’s math class! It was during Covid, so the teacher recorded it himself without a second thought! I couldn’t believe what I was seeing!
I hear what you’re saying about recording. But Im not sure phones in class are the answer.
I don’t know what other answer there is to stop teachers getting away with this shit. The racism and sexual harassment I saw on display when I was going to school in Indiana in the 80s and 90s was not a secret. But since it was always the teacher’s word against the kid’s, the teacher always got away with it. The only time I can think of that it didn’t happen was when a very devoted girl and her family in my high school spent a lot of time and money in court suing a teacher who sexually harassed her in middle school. He had his job the whole time (he was finally fired when he lost the case).
Security cameras in classes? They have them on busses.
Exactly. If a student doesn’t want to pay attention, it won’t.
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I think the exposing teachers part is even more important. I edited my post to show a link to a student who filmed a teacher being racist above.
Here’s another link to another incident to show that isn’t a one-off
https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article275311416.html
I got all kinds of mistreatment by teachers in school and saw even worse stuff happen to other kids. Racism, sexual harassment, violent threats, etc. But we didn’t have phones with cameras in them back in the early 90s, so they got away with it. They can’t anymore… unless they ban phones, of course.
EDIT: I don’t suppose one of the many downvoters would take the time to explain why giving children the ability to expose teachers like this should be taken away from them in the name of getting kids to pay attention.
EDIT: I don’t suppose one of the many downvoters would take the time to explain why giving children the ability to expose teachers like this should be taken away from them in the name of getting kids to pay attention.
To give you a genuine response, it is at least conceivable that the potential harm caused by allowing students with adolescent brains constant access to platforms that are explicitly and intentionally designed to be as addictive and distracting as possible is greater than the positive impact of outing the occasional bigoted teacher.
I’m not saying this is definitively the case because I’m neither a sociologist nor a psychologist, but I think it’s fair to say that we can objectively state that this is at least possible.
If it is because people think it’s occasional, I hope they’ve changed their minds now that I’ve posted 7 links. 5 of them I found within a few minutes of searching (all five in total, not each). The other two I found instantly.
Because I disagree entirely that this potential harm is worse than the actual harm on these videos.
I don’t think throwing any amount of links at each other is a particularly productive way of answering the question. I can just as easily find an equal number of reports from teachers saying how keeping kids off their phones is nearly impossible and makes it much harder to actually teach. Plenty of teachers would strongly disagree that social media is merely a ‘potential’ harm.
There are a lot of things to consider here. The world has changed.
Kids have legitimate reasons for having a cell phone today. It makes it infinitely easier to coordinate pickups, care of siblings, emergencies, job scheduling, etc. it shouldn’t be used during class, but ae a parent i have enough legit reasons i want my daughter to have her phone on her and as long as its not being used during class, then the school can fuck right off. Ill decide whats best for my child. If she uses it during class, give her detention or whatever. Or tell me and ill handle itat home.
Beyond that, i dont want a teacher confiscating a device that costs several hundred dollars. That would lead to teachers or admins mysteriously “losing” the phone, only for it to show up on eBay.
There have also heen numerous high profile incidents of the bad behavior of teachers, students, and security personnel. I kinda like the idea of kids being able to not only defend themselves but also provide evidence to authorities that would probably have not believed them otherwise.
Today, phones are a ubiquitous paret of everyone’s lives. Schools are better off trying to figure out how to integrate the technology into their lessons instead of a futile war against them.
I’m pretty sure the issue being discussed is the usage of phones during class time. Literally, it’s in the blurb. You didn’t even have to click on the article.
It never ceased to amaze me on reddit how people would have such strong opinions on an article that they obviously didn’t even read because they had basic facts incorrect.
But, man, Lemmy has made that look like childs play, considering the inclusion of the blurb, which is basically like a comment, and people will still upvote comments that get basic facts included in the blurb wrong.
It’s the same people
Apple and google should add location based parental control, in addition to the time based. A checkbox ‘in a school’ would be easy. Let parents disable things they don’t need like Netflix while leaving them with their emergency communication device.
Not perfect, but it would help.
There is already time based controls with Google family.
I’m in my 30s and back in college and the amount of little shit heels on Tik Tok during the professor’s lecture is too damn high! (Had to)
Makes me want to walk around class and slap the phones out of their hands, maybe slap them too. Hella disrespectful to the the teach and distracting for students who actually want to be there.
I feel like college professors are often overwhelmed by the the amount of it, and really just aren’t disciplinarians like K-12 teachers are.
The question is why students will watch Netflix instead of listening and learning. It wasn’t better in the past as they didn’t have a smartphone. The situation is different.
We live in a world in perpetual movement. The school is in a new situation. Tomorrow, the situation will change again and again.
What to do? We can go back to how we think it was in the past. But, it will never be. People and society changed. How we see the world around us changed.
Or, we can do what any government did in the past 30 years, putting money in schools and education. The school has to follow the change in the perception of the world by adapting their methods. Instead of 2x+2x=4x, you can learn 2 smartphones + 2 smartphones = 4 smartphones.
The other point is that we are in an ultra individual time. And, school can’t be like that. School is a common. You have to play in team. This need to build a relationship and confidence between teachers and students and between students. But, nobody gives the time and money to do so. Bullying is high for example and isn’t addressed properly.
It’s not that it was better before. It changed and we didn’t put the money so the school followed the perpetual change.
I’m leaning the other way on this. Give them tasks to do with their phones. Put the phones to work.
Anything that has a student’s attention is a potential route of engagement. Employing that route is infinitely better than banning it.
“Anyone who tries to make a distinction between education and entertainment doesn’t know the first thing about either.”
-Marshall McLuhan
Smartphones are not purely entertainment machines. They are super connected, extremely portable computers.
You could connect a Bluetooth keyboard to a phone and use it to take notes.
You could ask the class to search the internet for examples or interesting facts.
There are a lot of ways a teacher can utilize students smartphones in a classroom. Ways that might help students understand technology better in a modern world.
Your comment has nothing to do with the quote I’ve provided. Other than you possibly misunderstanding it.
Heh, you’re right. I misunderstood the meaning of why you posted that quote. Maybe you could add your intentions next time as quotes are often misunderstood and misrepresented. I have a similar issue.
What you don’t understand you can make mean anything.
-Chuck Palahniuk, Diary
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Maybe reread it?
Idk dude. Google it.
Edit: gotta love the angry downvote. 😂
Note taking via typing has been shown time and again to result in worse comprehension than manual note taking.
That’s a good point. However I would argue it really depends on the individual student. Just because a majority of students might do better with handwritten notes, doesn’t mean we have to take away the ability for a student to type notes. That seems similar to forcing a left handed student to write with their right hand.
I personally feel that taking notes is a distraction to my own learning. And a retain more information if I just watch a lecture intently. I do record / use speech to text to make notes after the fact however.
But let’s go with that idea that students should be taking notes in class. As if they were then they couldn’t be distracted by a smartphone. So maybe a teacher could have a policy of just checking notes.
Perhaps better yet would be a policy of quizzing the students at the end of class? I guess that might depend on how much time is left in a lession though.
School districts where i live have plenty of laptops and chromebooks for these activities.
Also any kind of emergency can happen while a kid is at school, the obvious one for the americans is an active shooter but it could be anything even an earth quake or other disaster where it all of a sudden becomes very important for each student to have their own line of communication available.
Phone safe on the wall. If there’s a good reason you can always access your phone, but you don’t have it in your hands while in class.
You don’t have to lock it up right away. In Germany, at least the school I went to, we’re allowed to have them on us, they have to stay in the pocket or bag and should at least be in do not disturb or silent mode. Otherwise, only then teachers take it away and you have to retrieve it from the admin office when you leave. (It’s more relaxed too in the last two years when you’re around 18, I’m pretty sure in a lot of classes I just had it on the desk when teachers didn’t mind. It still had to not cause distractions though.)
Generally this worked well (though, I left our equivalent of high school in 2019, no idea how it is now), except in some classes with oblivious teachers. But I feel like in those cases, you can make all the laws you want and it won’t fix shit.
In Germany, at least the school I went to, we’re allowed to have them on us, they have to stay in the pocket or bag and should at least be in do not disturb or silent mode.
It’s a perfectly reasonable policy that many, if not most, US Schools either had or still have. The problem is that Students are increasingly refusing to comply with Social Order rules like this and Teachers increasingly don’t have the authority or ability to enforce them when they’re broken. The policy only works when the majority of people willingly comply, just like nearly all of the other rules / policies / laws that society creates.
So what does a Teacher do when 15 of their 20 students have their phones out and are using them in class?
Teachers increasingly don’t have the authority or ability to enforce them when they’re broken.
Well, I feel like this is the main problem then. If teachers aren’t allowed to enforce any rules, what are we even talking about here. Especially kids will do anything they can get away with. (I certainly did my fair share of shenanigans too.)
The policy only works when the majority of people willingly comply, just like nearly all of the other rules / policies / laws that society creates.
So what does a Teacher do when 15 of their 20 students have their phones out and are using them in class?
Really? I think this is very different since it’s in a controlled environment with a relatively small group of people. Or at least, it should be. The teacher should very reasonably be able to take all of those away. And if not, here they certainly had the ability to escalate.
The teacher should very reasonably be able to take all of those away.
I agree that they should be, but increasingly they can’t. It’s being prevented by a bunch of entitled students and the dumb-ass parents that support them. Even in this Post here on Lemmy you can find people arguing that students should have on demand access to their smartphones.
People always say this, but somehow society and schools did manage to function before 2008.
We know that access to phones causes significantly worse student performance. Is it really worth harming all students’ ability to learn just so that, in the event of a rare emergency, a family can get an “all good” message a little bit faster? Schools were perfectly able to locate and track their students during emergencies and notify families before smartphones existed, speaking as someone who was in an extreme weather emergency during school myself during that time.
Why 2008? Why arbitrary year?
What would a phone do in the case of a school shooter or earthquake exactly? During a school shooting, kids are advised to be as quiet as possible. An earthquake isn’t something a phone call can solve. You don’t need phones in classrooms.
Have you tried earning people’s attention instead of demanding it?
It’s school. Get over yourself.
