- California authorities found a man illegally owning 248 guns and 1 million rounds of ammo.
- The state attorney general said he also had 3,000 magazines and several grenades in his home.
- The guns included 11 machine guns, 133 handguns, and 60 assault rifles, authorities said.
That’s crazy, how can someone have a million rounds and nearly a dozen machine guns and NOT blow it all on one fucking sweet range day with the boys?
Imagine living close to Nevada and not using the ammo on a chance to fire some really kick ass guns. That state is like mecca for collectors and automatic weapon lovers.
How do you know he didn’t have 2 million rounds and did this with half?
Because, duh, when the new world order or lizard lasers or whatever it’s called these days comes, that million rounds will be his gateway to keep his little empire so filled with freedom! For at least an hour or two!
It’s an investment!*
* Disclaimer, this is not investment advice.
Easy, he had no friends.
The best part is, it sounds like they arrested him and seized his guns, all without a shot being fired.
I would love to know why this guy felt he needed so many guns and ammo, because obviously it wasn’t to protect himself from a hostile government.
Collector maybe? The article makes it sound like they may have been legally acquired prior to him being barred from owning them. That cache may have been worth hundreds of thousands of dollars from the machine guns alone.
I find it odd that no one has mentioned the possibility that he could have been a black market dealer. Suppressors, short barreled rifles, and fully automatic machine guns, are all purchasable in the US if you can file the right paperwork and be approved for those purchases by the BATF, under the National Firearms Act (NFA). This approval process includes the ATF having you on speed dial to show up and make sure you still safely possess said items, and aren’t flipping them on the street for a massive mark up.
While an NFA regulated suppressor might run you $1200 after taxes and fees, a suppressor on the streets without the paper trail might go for closer to 3-5k. Actual transferrable machine guns, due to their extreme rarity in the US, command prices from $10,000 to $60,000 dollars through existing legal channels, and again, could be sold at a massive markup without the baggage of a paper trail. Even firearms legal to own without NFA restrictions would command a sizable markup when sold off the books. And this is how gangs have armed themselves for decades, through dealers just like this.
Based on the picture, he was definitely a collector. There are multiple collector’s items in there. That said, he could be a black market dealer who also purchased collector’s items for himself when he came across them. Also, does California not have more restrictive laws regarding Suppressors, short barreled rifles, and fully automatic machine guns? I thought they had laws regulating magazines to 10 rounds?
Article confirms that machine guns are illegal in California. He had multiple World War 1 era machine guns and other pieces that could be in museums. This guy should have just moved to a neighboring state. He had the money.
- Lewis gun
- Madsen gun? Zb? Hard to tell
- Lahti 20mm
- A few 1919s
- M2
- Mp40
- Various Stens, Uzis, Thompson, MAC 11/10s
- Sterling SMG
- 2x Swedish K (or S&W copy)
- 8x 80% or reweld AKs
- Grease gun
- Polish Rak SMG (?)
- Sig 552/556
- ‘Solvent trap’ suppressor
- A lot of generic or DIY looking suppressors
This screams hardcore collector who was active from the 60s onwards, refused to turn his collection in and said ‘fuck it I’m all in on the felonies already’ and made some stuff himself on the low down. The machineguns may be a mix of NFA and illegal, idk but 80%s and/or parts kits speak to his technical ability
The Lewis and Lahti is what sways me from illegal dealer to gun nut, no criminal gives a shit about those kind of weapons
There is also an MG 18, the ZB you mentioned may be a Bren gun, and there is a Japanese type 97 machine gun.
Hope that the actual relics with history get kept and put into a museum or something, the WW1 pieces especially, instead of a metal crusher
Yeah, I’d say those are good observations. Curious to see if we ever hear more about the case.
Yes, California state laws are more restrictive than the federal baseline, and on that note I would counter that risking a pile of decade long felony convictions seems a bit risky for a “collector”. If dude knows how to acquire all of this restricted hardware without leaving an obvious paper trail, I would imagine he knows the massive consequences of his actions. Possession of even one unregistered NFA item is a 10 year felony. No one takes that risk because “I just think they’re neat!”
I feel like we have more and more Marge’s every year in the US gun market.
That’s a good point, but as someone else pointed out, some of those guns are rare and unlikely for a black market dealer to be interested in. Though it’s possible he was a collector and dealer.
Many years ago I was offered a 1911 with a suppressor for $800. Auto sears aren’t even that hard to find.
A collector generally only collects guns, not ammo. You don’t need a million rounds for guns that are too valuable to actually use.
Collectors generally also like shooting not as valuable guns?
You don’t need to hoard millions of ammo to go shooting. Most people don’t.
You don’t need a million rounds for guns that aren’t too valuable to actually use either. No average person needs a million rounds for any reason.
If he didn’t have those guns, the king of England could walk right in here and start pushing you around.
D’you want that? Huh? Do ya?
And if he wants to be ready for the British army, he’s gonna need a million rounds.
No. It’s a joke from a classic Simpsons episode where Homer buys a gun
So?
It depends on whether you’re a collector or a Collector. Someone who collects them but takes them to gun shoots could easily go through tens or hundreds of thousands of rounds due to how fast some of those guns fire. Millions of rounds seems a bit high, but if he was regularly buying surplus ammo out of habit it seems like you could hit that much without meaning to.
However, if he was a captial-C Collector, then yeah, millions of rounds is nuts.
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Speaking as a very very casual gun enthusiast myself - - I think it’s a tricky subject. Guns & ammo are great, a million rounds certainly seems excessive, and idk it’s possible this guy was a black market arms dealer for very very bad people.
When you have guns, you wonder how you’d react to a knock on the door & an attempted gun confiscation. I don’t see many scenarios playing out where violence is called for; they are not (directly) threatening my life, but rather confiscating tool(s) that can be used for hunting, recreation, and yes preserving my life in self-defense. Very not cool. But it’s still technically not a physical threat to me. If I were to pop off some guns in defiance of a gun collection attempt, that would lend credence to the idea that I’m an “unstable person” that “shouldn’t be allowed” to own firearms. Also, my fight isn’t with the guy doing the confiscating. He’s a member of my community, he’s just some guy doing what he’s told, maybe he’s got a wife & kids. What is to be gained from shooting him in the face? Does that not make me a monster? Maybe this guy thinks similarly, he was confronted without a shot being fired.
No, from one red-blooded American to another, the no-conflict response is wisest & best. Tell them a warrant is needed, when they can’t find what they’re looking for, give them the ol’ classic “lost the guns in a terrible boating accident” line. They will be forced to accept it & move the fuck on. When tyranny reigns, defiance is duty, avoidance/lies/concealment are justified.
My line of thought is this: you can have twenty safes full of badass guns & ammunition in your basement. But that doesn’t matter if you’ve got a gun to your head on your front porch. What is practical? What is reasonable? What is necessary? Just a handful of nice guns made ready & accessible, a daily carry you’re familiar with, a solid 12-ga, a .223 hunting rifle, and a few thousand rounds of ammo for each caliber you own.
My gut tells me this guy wasn’t a prepper, if his ungodly massive stores of firearms & munitions were so easily found & rounded up. At least not a good one. My gut tells me this guy was involved in the illegal arms trade, he had a setup in his home that no-gooders could visit & “shop” for what they needed.
when they can’t find what they’re looking for, give them the ol’ classic “lost the guns in a terrible boating accident” line.
Ah yes, lie to the cops.
They will be forced to accept it & move the fuck on.
Or they’ll actually investigate and found out that you planned out that scenario, and even talked about it on social media.
Ah yes. Lie to the cops. Fucking duh. Idk what deep-dive internet policework your local cops do, but it just doesn’t happen all that often in my opinion. I’ll roll those dice. I only mention it to give others the idea; we the people need to stand in solidarity or our rights will systematically, legally, be taken away.
If concealment is done properly, there is no physical proof. People literally get away with murder in this manner. Law enforcement doing a sketchy arms confiscation will not aggressively search for…something of low value or concern that they will never, ever fucking find. Common sense. They will be forced to move on. You apparently are not able to understand that. But they will.
Authority isn’t synonymous with right. The law was rounding up the Jews in Germany. The law was rounding up the runaway blacks in America. At best law is merely a guide for people who are incapable of thinking for themselves, at worst it is a cash/resources/power grab, law does not determine right or wrong. A disarmed population of generally law-abiding citizens is not in the best interest of the private citizens, and I would go so far as to argue the United States.
we the people need to stand in solidarity
But not by voting, by breaking the law. In other words, the position you hold isn’t popular enough that you can get there legitimately, you can only get there by breaking the law.
This is a gross oversimplification…laws can be passed just to grab money, power, resources. Or just on a whim. 2 examples come to mind: the Boston Tea Party & the United States Library of Congress making cell phone unlocking illegal. The Americans weren’t begging for a tea tax (and they sure as hell didn’t vote to bring about change). And idk if you’re aware of this obscure little blip in history: James Hadley Billington, Librarian of Congress in 2012, decided to make cell phone unlocking illegal. I was fresh out of college…and an 83 year old man unilaterally passed a law telling me what I can & cannot do with my smartphone. Nobody asked for this, to borrow your terminology, it was unpopular. There were petitions I signed. Do you have any idea how infuriating that is?? The LoC JHB was so old, he’s dead now. Obama said the law couldn’t be repealed (???) 🙄 Eventually 2 years later it was, but it was a wild wtf type moment.
To be fair to Mr. JHB, you look at his record & it seems like he/his team accomplished a lot of good things during his service. He just really, really fucked up in 2012.
I don’t know how productive further discussions will be; we appear to take very different positions on law, authorities, government, right & wrong. ¯\(°_o)/¯ Have a good night
Yup. The guns aren’t there for when a cop is knocking on your door. The guns are there for when a cop is raping your wife.
And if people think that latter scenario unrealistic, just look at history. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and the reason we have a government-recognize right to guns is to prevent that absolute power from existing as a state of affairs.
It’s okay if the government has the majority of the power. It’s okay if the government has relative power. The guns are here to prevent the government from having absolute power. That’s the kind of scenario where the women are getting raped by the men in uniform, while the men who arent in uniform either watch helplessly or get tortured to death for trying to intervene.
The guns are there for when a cop is raping your wife.
Yes, a common scenario that everyone experiences at least once or twice, thereby justifying a huge armory of guns.
And if people think that latter scenario unrealistic, just look at history
Better to look at statistics. How often has that scenario actually played out?
Perhaps the thing he was worried about wasn’t peacefully being arrested.
Perhaps the reason this got resolve peacefully is because any violence would have been felt heavily by both sides.
I guess we found the guy causing the Ammo shortage, it wasn’t Obama after all!
I like how that shortage wasn’t caused by Obama, but instead a bunch of psycho Republicans’ overreactions to a black democrat making it into office.
I’m old enough to remember the start of the ammo shortage, it coincided with massive ammo orders from the TSA of all government organizations. They placed massive orders for ammo, completely wiping everything out at the stores. Then, once it was back ordered for months the demand never went back down, nor did the prices.
Wtf did the tsa do with THAT much ammo?
Probably stored it for 10 years, declared it expired, and then sent it to be destroyed.
This guy government purchase orders.
What year was that?
That was back in 2008. I did a quick google and everybody parrots Obama causing it. The thing is, we knew* the military was stock piling ammo like they were hoarding oil. They built a huge reservoir of oil/gas because they realized somebody could turn off the gas flow to the US and bring the military to its heels.
And so after the marines/army/air force finished buying rounds, the TSA placed a big order and it was all over the news for a while because it’s not like they ever use ammo for anything. Regardless, they spent buckets of cash on a bunch of ammo and almost everything disappeared from the shelves except for 22 long rifle and shotgun shells. Mainly because .22 rounds were useless along with shotgun shells with birdshot.
As someone that shoots for fun, this was fine with me because that’s all you need. However, ever since that shortage it never ended. People started saying crazy shit like “Obama’s gonna stop all gun sales” or “Hillary is going to ban ammunition sales”. And the only way it stayed un bought is when people would mark prices up on the ammo, yet people keep buying (beyond $2/ bullet now).
If I were a conspiracy theorist, I’d reckon big firearms is out there making the shit up about gun bans or ammo bans, because whenever a rumor goes around that shit flies off the shelf at ridiculous prices. Almost makes me wish I had an ammo company myself.
Bullets are more than $2/ea right now?! (And what should they be?)
There have been consistent shortages for sixteen years?
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I like how Trump is the only president who has floated the idea of straight up banning guns.
He’s floated a lot of “ideas” and most of them are completely fucking mental. Remember drinking bleach to kill covid?
“Even a broken clock is right twice a day”
So I believe Trump is a cancer to democracy, but we need to put that sunlight and bleach thing in context. The poor man had just sat through a long presentation that wasn’t about him, and he needed to act out and prove he was important. The other day I was in a middle school class and a kid walked up and farted on a teacher. Same thing, same mentality, same maturity.
The only reason he “floated the idea” of banning guns is that the idea popped into his head and he said it without thinking. Any other politician would know that’s a hot button issue and not to actually say that idea, even if they think it’s a good one. Trump is so incompetent he didn’t know not to push that button. But, you can be sure that someone took him aside immediately after he said it and told him to walk it back, so he did. He didn’t really care anyhow, it’s not an issue that matters to him, it was just a passing thought that he thought sounded good at the moment.
They didn’t name him how do you know it wasn’t Obama
At lease he didn’t have any armor. Tanks, Obama.
Black man with that many guns and they didn’t fire a shot while arresting him?
Why would anyone illegally own guns in America? Don’t the licenses come in cereal boxes?
The article says that the man is prohibited from owning firearms, so he probably has a felony or something. I’m not sure about California, but you wouldn’t need any kind of special license to own all of those guns and ammo in a lot of states.
Machine guns are illegal unless you have a… Class 3 permit? It’s a hassle so nobody does it.
The qty of ammo isn’t illegal but really really above normal. The assault rifles are more of a buzzword unless they are burst or full auto, in which case would be illegal.
You can’t own a full auto without a special license that’s very difficult to attain in any state
It’s not difficult, it’s expensive, and per weapon, and has to be renewed fairly often.
In addition california limits mags to 15 rounds.
It’s 10 rounds
Most states don’t require licensure at all. You complete a background check at time of purchase as required by federal law, and if you aren’t a felon or prohibited for other reasons, you proceed with the purchase.
Yup it’s totally fucked up. After I picked out my handgun it took 15 minutes after that to complete my purchase. Ordered my food right after they started the background check cause I thought it might take a while. Got my firearm and my food was still hot when I got back.
There really needs to be more before being able to buy a firearm. At the VERY least training and safety courses. This is where my opinion gets considered controversial, but if we had a better health care system I think annual mental health checkups for gun owners should be a thing.
Because they are illigal immigrants, cant own a gun if you are not a legal resident sooooooooo the question is not why did he have guns but why was he here?
He’s the guy in every movie that shows up in an SUV, pops the trunk, and pulls back a dirty tarp revealing a small arsenal.
Burt Gummer in Tremors and Tremors 2.
Get the elephant gun. Also reba was bad ass in tremors
I was so disappointed she wasn’t in Aftershocks! But I like how Burt’s character ended up because of it.
This is too accurate for Richmond. I know truck drivers that won’t even deliver there.
Now I want to watch The Jackal (1997) again so I can enjoy Jack Black in this role.
Send it to Ukraine
"Muh protection rifles! "
nooo u cant take my emotional support machine gun body pillows from meeee
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“Mr. Webley, I trust you have a license for that firearm?”
“(mumble mumble)”
“He does for this one.”
How the hell do you get 11 machine guns. That’s a full on armory
It really isn’t difficult to buy illegal weapons.
Or make a legal weapon an illegal machine gun.
Machine guns aren’t illegal if you have a stamp.
Are you aware of what is involved in getting that stamp? The only people who bother are collectors.
You think this guy wasn’t a collector??? Bahahaha
He’s a stamp collector?
Yes u pay a fee and then wait like 3 years. What’s your point. There’s always a process no matter what firearm u buy from an FFL. One of my best friends is an FFL
Well shit, I’ve got lots of stamps
It really isn’t difficult to buy illegal weapons
Maybe it should be.
Better shut down the borders, then.
I was thinking more like we prevent kids from having recess, so their brains don’t develop and they’re easier to control.
That might help reduce the flow of American guns from coming into Canada.
Most of the weapons crossing the US/Mexico boarder are going southbound.
Cartels smuggle a fuck ton of weapons, especially automatics, into the US.
They don’t really have to smuggle them southbound because the US straight up gives them guns to destabilize countries we have financial interests in.
It really isn’t difficult to buy
illegalweapons in America.FTFY
No, you didn’t. Machine guns aren’t legal to own unless you have a very expensive permit which basically grants the ATF an unlimited warrant to perform a search for it.
Also, this article is about the US, so making that distinction isn’t necessary.
Replacing one or two parts to make a weapon automatic is easy. The article doesn’t clarify what a “machine gun” is or what make or model. Buy a few AR15s, replace the parts. Machine gun. And illegal. Fitting the article’s definition.
I live a half hour away from Addyston, OH. No problemo.
Ok, and I’ve done a shit ton of drugs in Dayton, I get like police chiefs and gang members getting automatic weapons. But this guy seems like a collector and not an arms trafficker (well non-collection trafficker) or something similar. As a person in some seedy shit I just don’t get how you’d even bring that shit up.
Though as I say this I realize I have gun friends and am probably less degrees of separation from buying a machine gun than I think I am. That’s concerning.
Fair point, but even as a collector, the number of weapons that went through his hands is quite concerning, to say the least.
(FWIW, I’m no expert of any kind, but am the son of a gunsmith/Maine State Hunting Guide/competitive marksman/redneck motherfucker who taught shooting and hunter safety, and who loathed the NRA, so my opinion is admittedly a bit skewed.)
Yeah I’m just some Midwestern dyke who hangs out with unsavory folks but that’s the thing in my perspective, you need a criminal side, a gun side, and to be the sort of person people will consider selling an illegal gun to. All of which is wild to me. Like acid is a pain to get, but machine guns…
Seriously, I think I’d have an easier time getting machine gun manufacturing going than purchasing
Oh yeah. No federal watchlists for that comment, no sir.
Fair, I will tell the feds, my understanding of how machine guns work is rudimentary at best and my machining skills are laughable in the handful of places they exist. It would be a several year process to learn to make them. I just think it would be even harder to buy one
My connection to the black market is an ex friend who I think is a psychopath but who’s otherwise fun to party with.
He want to prison for killing a guy, and after he got out was when I started hearing about opportunities to drive a trunkful of cocaine across the country and things like that.
What I’m saying is I think the place those deals get made — like let’s buy 100 M-16s instead of let’s buy ten doses of MDMa — happen in prison.
So from what I’ve read he wasn’t arrested because of the quantity of guns and ammo, but just because he wasn’t supposed to have weapons.
Makes me wonder if there are any laws on the books for how many guns and bullets one person can own and store on their property.
I do not believe there are any limits. Grenades are not legal.
I am pretty darn pro 2A to the point where I think mag caps are wrong, but even I can see value in amount of guns allowed on one premise type of law. I really don’t want to see some small cult activate a group of home grown terrorists and then them all being able to instantly access weapons from one location. If you’re rich enough to own like let’s say more than 50 guns, your rich enough to pay for some of them to be stored off site and be swapped through if they want to play with their different toys.
I didn’t know what “Pro 2A” meant so I looked it up in the US-English to UK-English dictionary
Huh, weird, it just says “Coward”
😂
What’s the dollar value of that? How do people afford their insanity?
As someone else mentioned, it’s likely he was a black market seller.
Machine guns can go for $20k+, easy, people with the kind of cash to have a dozen and an ammo stockpile just for collection purposes are going to do it legally.
$20k+ is pretty standard for on register transferable guns. Off register illegal machineguns can go for much less than that, like Glock switches. Unless we’re talking about already very rare models of MGs.
They posted a picture with some of the seized weapons.
There’s what sure looks like a Browning M2 in there, bro. They’re 10k for the Army.
I’m not saying it’s impossible he was dumb enough to put together an illegal hoard worth more than a house, I’m saying there’s more likely answers.
I didn’t dig deep for the best prices, but found 9mm 100 counts on some bulk ammo website selling for $31.50. So back of the napkin math says $315,000. Realistically probably a good bit less if you’re buying large quantities, but in any case, it’s a lot of money’s worth just for the bullets.
Large quantiy ammunition buying is super economical, it’s fairly common to see groups of shooting enthusiasts all go in on a pallet of ammo and distribute the ammo amongst themselves. Buying that much alone is a bit strange, but depending on how often you shoot you can go through a loooot of amunition quicker than you realize. Not millions of rounds, but I wouldn’t think twice of someone with a few thousand rounds.
Any guess as to what a million rounds would go for if you bought em at once?
I wouldn’t know, but a pallet of 9mm is only 100k rounds, larger calibers would be less ammo per pallet and that 9mm pallet goes for 20-25k. If you bough them all at once im not sure how much more discounted it would be. Id expect not all his ammo is the same caliber so at most has probably buying 3-5 pallets at a time depending on caliber. Maybe they throw him a thousand bucks back per order? Thats just me guessing on not much though, shippings gonna be a removed and that may be where you can secure the discounts since you’re emptying so much space and weight in one spot.
Cheap non remanufactured range 9x19mm ammo is about 18¢ a round. Or ~$180 per 1,000 rds.
But prices vary drastically by cartridge. .22LR might only cost you 10¢ per round but .50 BMG might cost $3.20 per round (both non reman cheapest prices). Without knowing what cartridges they were and how many of each we can’t really calculate the total value.
This is a good website for the actual market value of ammo:
Somewhere in another timeline, a person has asked “How on earth would gun laws actually stop a mass shooting like this one involving 11 machine guns and hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition?” And then a timeline-traveler would have brought that person to this timeline, and shown them this article, where said individual was arrested ahead of time.
Hoarder or starting an uprising?
Yes.
Dealer? (Not legal)
It’s for that really big bear.
When waging war is your weekend hobby.
