Ok, I just watched this movie without really knowing anything about it or even anything about Transformers beforehand, and I am left both angry and confused about their setting decisions.

Here’s an extremely basic rundown of the plot, at least the relevant parts to this post: There’s an ancient artifact called the Transwarp Key that a group of robot animals brought to Earth to keep it safe. But the bad guy robots find it and come to Earth and the heroes have to find the two halves of the key before the bad guys find it and use it to destroy the universe. Pretty simple plot for a kids movie, nothing too creative or thrilling but by itself it’s perfectly harmless. Couldn’t really keep my attention that well but I’m an adult, for a kids movie a plot like this is sufficient and it’s not like it would be torture for a parent or guardian to watch alongside.

BUT this is where the not harmless stuff comes. Where are the key fragments hidden? Why, in a sacred Indigenous South American cultural site, of course! You know, one of those places that almost got destroyed by Europeans and are held in extremely high regard and worshipped by the Indigenous peoples in the region? Complete with using symbols from their language (which the Europeans also tried to destroy) as part of the riddle that must be solved to gain the secrets of the key.

Everyone is harping on Transformers for “cultural appropriation” because of this. Which, yeah that’s totally unacceptable and I agree with those sentiments. They did engage in coloniamism and cultural appropriation, the latter I know has become a buzzword but this is like, dictionary definition for that term and is absolutely accurate to call it that.

But my question to the director is: Why? Why use Indigenous South American culture which people will rightfully accuse you of colonialism over? White people, why not incorporate your own culture into this? Then no one can say anything because it’s your own culture, just like how we don’t go around freaking out at Bollywood sci-fi movies when they incorporate Indian culture into their lore, or Chinese fantasy movies when they inject magic elements into a depiction of Ancient China.

You want a place to hide your space transwarp crystal in a way that incorporates humans? Instead of choosing an Indigenous holy site to set it in, choose the Vatican or something? In fact, your crystal was split into two halves and were hidden? How convenient! Christianity already has two separate holy items you can use, the Holy Lance and the Holy Grail, maybe use those? The whole reason those were lost could have been because the giant robot animals hid them away, or those weren’t actually associated with Jesus but the Transwarp crystal, and the only reason those were associated with Jesus was due to the robots making that up as a cover story, maybe the actual cup and spear were the things that were used to control the crystal, hence their perceived power to the early Christians. Maybe you get into a conflict with the cardinals and they decide to help the villain because they see the good guys as the Antichrist trying to steal the holy treasures and bring about Armageddon. And that speech that the Transformers give about the only way to save the universe is to fight as one? That can be directed at the cardinals and convince them that the giant space ship trying to kill everything is in fact the bad guy. There, in two minutes and minimal literary effort I just worldbuilt something that would be less offensive and more interesting than what you came up with, considering you didn’t even actually incorporate any South American folklore into your own plot (which I’m still thankful for btw, thank god they didn’t try that shit unlike some other movies set in South America) and just used “oh shit it’s in Peru” as an excuse to get your characters from New York to the plot. Just change it to “oh shit it’s in Italy” then. At least I used my proposed setting to my story’s advantage in some way.

Or you could have chosen Buckingham Palace. Or Notre Dame. Or the Roman Colosseum. Or for a more wilderness setting like what was in your movie, go to Scandinavia and say the Vikings guarded it or something, or the Alps, or the Neander Valley. Or literally any of the other historic Western European sites. Hell you could have even made up an European place like the Chapel of the First Order of the Knights of Transforminghamsire or something and no one would have batted an eye.

It would literally be the exact same movie if you changed the setting. You can keep every single one of your plotpoints and only the backdrop would be different.

It won’t save the plot if it was bad to begin with, but at least you’re not engaging in colonialism. Which will actually allow people to enjoy the movie instead of wondering why the fuck you had to bring Indigenous peoples into this and defile their sacred sites.

  • ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    It’s because what culture is left here for white people in America? European settlers literally gave up their thousands of years of culture to become white here in the United States, and so they don’t feel much connection to European cultural landmarks.

    • AgreeableLandscapeOP
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      1 year ago

      Then go to Europe? Can’t be more expensive than going to South America, and then you won’t get people like me accusing you to colonialism! I’m 100% certain their audience have even less of a connection to Indigenous South American culture.

      • ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        White Americans generally find the “mysticism” of the “savages” more intriguing would be my best guess. They don’t really care that much about backlash, as long as the movie still makes money

        • AgreeableLandscapeOP
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          1 year ago

          Good point. Also I realized that if they had set it in a Christian setting they’d be pissing off the mostly white parents that are very possibly Christian.

    • AgreeableLandscapeOP
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      1 year ago

      Thinking more about this, why not set the whole thing in New York then? Hide one of the crystal fragments in the Statue of Liberty and the other one in Times Square. Yes, the place we now call New York is still someone else’s native land, but it still wouldn’t be as overtly racist and colonialist as what they actually did as long as you’re using American cultural elements and not Indigenous cultural elements.

      • ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        You’d have to change the story then no? I haven’t seen the movie so I can’t say for sure, but it seems like the general idea is that these crystals have been here for much longer than new york has been around

        • AgreeableLandscapeOP
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          1 year ago

          Yeah but, not change it that much. I suggested Italy on the premise that they wouldn’t have to change anything but the backdrop and props and just a bit of dialogue, but if we’re actually trying to write a good movie, not simply a not-racist one, then the plot needs some serious rework anyway.

          I’m not going to suggest putting it there before it was called New York because they’ll probably make that a lot worse and I doubt the Indigenous peoples there are interested in that kind of “”“representation”“” either.

          Or just keep the location ambiguous. Especially since the plot doesn’t even take advantage of the setting. Just find a nondescript forest and hide it in a boulder or in the trunk of a big tree or something. You can still have humans around the area, and especially since the robots see all humans as just one group (how progressive of them, more so than the producers, what a concept, right?) you really don’t need to mention who these people are, just that they live around here and they know the robot animals. Plenty of movies do that already, in fact some very well-written stories go out of their way to make the setting ambiguous.

          • ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            ig at the end of the day it’s hard to say 100% for certain why they chose to do what they did, everything you’ve suggested sounds fine to me, I’ve just been trying to get in the heads of the screenwriters ya know?

  • ☭CommieWolf☆@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    In all fairness, transformers already has made attempts to appropriate western culture, they made an entire film about medieval era “Knights of the round table” style crap not so long ago if I’m not wrong. Its just such a long franchise that they’re running out of ideas and will eventually end up trying everything at this rate.

    • AgreeableLandscapeOP
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      1 year ago

      Ironically, they’ve just backed themselves further into that hole because the biggest piece of worldbuilding this movie establishes is that now the Transformers can NEVER return to their home planet, because they made it very clear that the Transwarp Key was their last hope and they destroyed it to save Earth. It’s like the Brian death thing Family Guy tried to pull (I swear, now that I said this, if a future Transformers movie is about them subverting this and going “just kidding, we had another way to get home the whole time” just like what Family Guy did, I’m coming back to this comment and saying I called it.)

      They could have released one movie about the Transformers leaving Earth with the help of a group of humans, heartfelt farewells and all; then one about the journey back to Cybertron and all the space shenanigans they get into; and last but not least one about them finally coming home, and maybe their planet is unrecognizable from when they left, maybe the war that caused them to leave is long over and everyone has forgotten about them, or maybe the war left their planet in shambles and they are blamed for abandoning them, maybe they returned just in time for a last stand to defend their planet and get to help defeat the villains and win the war in one huge, gratuitously cinematic battle! There’s so much conflict and untold stories if they would simply break the status quo of their series. And those are ideas I came up with for a comment on Lemmy after having watched one single Transformers movie, surely a team of professional writers with access to their entire internal lore document can come up with way cooler plots (you do have a central lore document for your long running billion dollar series, right?)

      You have a premise about super advanced alien robots. You should be taking advantage of that. When I want to watch an alien robot movie, I want to see them do actual alien robot things, not be essentially giant, super strong humans on Earth with lasers, complete with acting exactly like humans and using human pop culture references. Take advantage of your premise and explore beyond the status quo! That’s like the first rule of worldbuilding and making a series in fiction!

    • AgreeableLandscapeOP
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      1 year ago

      > Bumblebee was alright though.

      My biggest gripe with Bumblebee is that I tried to research the actual insect for my ecology class and Transformers kept flooding the search results. Even with search terms that include insect or ecological terminology Transformers still manage to sneak in.

      I just wanted creative-commons pictures of them doing buzz pollination to put in my paper man!

  • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    White people, why not incorporate your own culture into this? Then no one can say anything because it’s your own culture

    Because it would still be cringe. Let me ask you - what is “white people culture”? Christianity? Started as a sect of Judaism. Ya know, Jews who are oh-so-famously “white”! Then got adopted by Romans - also “not white” until fairly recently, despite every subsequent European power trying to cosplay as Rome. What else is there? Vikings? Overdone and always cringe. And will inevitably attract Nazis, which is usually not good for PR (even now). Perhaps Celts? That could be cool, but you’d have to actually bother with research. And frankly I am not aware of Celts having artifacts as impressive as Southern American pyramids (ziggurats?). You gotta have something impressive to handwave “the aliens did it”.

    So let me reiterate. What exactly is “white people culture” that the producers should have used instead?

    • AgreeableLandscapeOP
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      1 year ago

      Then make something up! Set it on not Earth like I suggested with another comment.

      You’re writing a move about giant alian robots, why do you have to focus so much on human culture? Make up whatever whack alien culture they have and explore that! Would be way more interesting and less socially problematic.

      Then again why am I trying to suggest how to improve this franchise as if I realistically expect Transformers of all things to become a fictional masterpiece? I didn’t grow up with Transformers toys and have no real nostalgia for it. I just found this movie and watched it because I was curious (and expecting the alien robot things that I’ve been mentioning).