It was announced late last year that Gentoo is now offering binary versions of their packages. I’ve always had an interest in Gentoo, but the need to compile everything has always turned me away from it. I run Arch because it gives me the sense that I have more control of my system, when compared to other distros like Ubuntu, for example, but it still keeps things simple enough for day-to-day use. That being said, when compared to Gentoo, Arch is still rather restrictive, so if there exists an alternative that offers Arch’s simplicity, and also the potential for customization of Gentoo, then I would gladly switch. I am wondering if Gentoo’s new binary offerings fit this description. From what I understand, it removes the need to set use flags, and to compile any packages, but it still allows you to maintain full control over your system.

So, in summary, is a binary Gentoo functionally equivelant to Arch Linux, but with more control over the system? I would like to know more about the following:

  1. Does the OS installation change, and, if so, how?
  2. Does package installation, updates, and maintenance change, and, if so, how?
  3. Do system updates change, and, if so, how?
  4. Do you lose any potential control over the system when using the binaries, rather than compiling from source, and, if so, what?
  5. Are there any differences in system stability? Can I expect things to break more readily on a binary Gentoo compared to Arch Linux?

Just a disclaimer: I have never used Gentoo – all my knowledge is second hand, or from skimming documentation out of curiosity. Please correct any inacuracies that I may have in my knowledge.

  • Shareni@programming.dev
    6·
    10 months ago

    Using binary packages — those that are offered — is missing out on a key strength of Gentoo and the primary reason one may choose it over another.

    Do you get any benefits when compiling giant binaries like FF or chromium?

    When I ran guixos those two sat in a separate manifest because compiling them was a “leave it overnight” type of jobs.

    • bubstance
      5·
      10 months ago

      You sure do get benefits, at least in the form of being able to select your compile-time options.

      Now, does this always result in a tangible performance difference? Absolutely not. It’s more about being able to make decisions like “I don’t want <insert_favorite_software> to be compiled with <insert_least_favorite_options> and I want it all handled by my package manager.”

      How much of a benefit this would be to you or anyone else is worth exploring — at least in my opinion — and a large reason why Gentoo has its own unique role in the larger Linux world.

      • Shareni@programming.dev
        2·
        10 months ago

        I was wandering about the benefits for specific apps like browsers.

        From my limited experience, most compiled updates are finished pretty quickly. The only exception are huge binaries, so a ThinkPad literally takes hours to compile Firefox.

        • bubstanceEnglish
          4·
          10 months ago

          Any benefit — whether that be smaller overall binary size, reduced system requirements, removed dependencies on unneeded libraries, etc. — would be entirely dependent on the machine and what USE flags you’re messing around with. I can’t really be more specific without knowing your exact hardware configuration and needs. You would have to know what features Firefox has that you explicitly don’t need and are available as flags, then you could start shaving your yak.

          I can, however, say that in all my time using Gentoo I installed Firefox from source maybe a half-dozen times, and it was always just to test out the upgrade from one CPU to the next. I don’t really need to trim all of the fat out of Firefox in most cases, so if I felt like I needed a really light GUI browser I’d probably just grab dillo or netsurf.

          Yes, compiling modern browsers from source on a laptop will probably take a few hours. Same thing with rust and the usual suspects. This is, of course, where binary packages are not only useful but indispensable.

          The benefits one could potentially gain from compiling something like a browser are often outweighed by practicality. Then again, a counter to that argument could be something along the lines of “you don’t have to sit there and watch it compile, you could be doing something else.”

          • Gork@lemm.ee
            2·
            10 months ago

            Are the benefits of compiling from source noticeable for modern hardware or slightly last gen hardware? Like, a last generation Ryzen 5900x with NVidia 3070 GPU (my current setup).

            I know compile flags definitely have an effect, I just don’t know how dramatic a difference there would be.

            • bubstanceEnglish
              3·
              10 months ago

              It certainly can be noticeable, depending on where and at what you’re looking. The issue can be that making a general “yes, you’ll see a difference” statement is usually difficult; opinions of what counts as “a difference” vary wildly from person to person.

              What you experience could be as small as shaving a few KiB off your executable or getting an extra 2-3 FPS in a game all the way up to “it just won’t work unless I compile it this specific way because of <insert_variable>.”

    • Kangie@lemmy.srcfiles.zip
      3·
      10 months ago

      As the Gentoo chromium maintainer, not really - we strip most CFLAGS as part of the ebuild unless you enable a special USE flag to keep them and it’s not particularly supported - if you encounter breakage with that enabled the first thing I’m going to ask you to do is turn them off.

      Edit: we do have some USE flags that control how the package is built, but that’s mostly choosing between the Google-bundled and system versions of libraries.

      Edit the second: there isn’t a package on the binhost for chromium yet, I need to work out how to build it so that it isn’t an issue to distribute.