Are there any animal products which are not the result of exploitation or cruelty (hypothetically)? For instance, wool comes to my mind as a product that could be obtained in a completely animal friendly manner. Just curious what you think.

    • robador51OP
      3·
      1 year ago

      Thanks for your thoughtful response! There’s a lot to unwind from the ethics here (for me). For example, let’s say I own a sheep. The word ‘own’ already implies commodification to a degree. However, let’s say I do everything I can to make my sheep comfortable and happy. I keep it fed, I make sure it has a lot of space to walk around, I take it for long walks, I provide it a home. Now from what I understand not shaving sheep is quite cruel, because their hair keeps growing (perhaps this is only certain species, I’m not an expert), at some point the weight of the hair becomes unbearable. Part of taking care involves shaving them periodically. Using the shavings to produce wool in this hypothetical I don’t believe is unethical. But, unpicking the hypothetical a bit further does give me a little unease:

      • Is it ever ethical to ‘own’ any animal?
      • Animals have been domesticated since before recorded history. This has created a symbiotic relationship with humans in which the animal depends on the human for it’s wellbeing.
      • To stop ownership and breeding would surely mean the extinction of certain species.(and I’m not even sure if that would be a bad thing)

      There’s more food for thought from your answer. There’s an aspect of anthropomorphism that I think is at play here. Are we projecting when we think about some of the ethics around this? Can we really know what an animal wants or how it feels? I believe animals signal discomfort, hurt, pain, stress, happiness, content, e.g., emotions, so, to a certain degree I believe we can. That’s the reason I 100% agree with you that it’s impossible to use animals as commodity ethically, i.e., commercially exploiting animals. My question was more around the hypotheticals, can we, even in the society we live in, use products that come from animals. Can we own, or rather, live together with, animals and share with each other?

      Thanks again for your answer and indulging me while I explore this topic.

    • SveetPickle@beehaw.org
      12·
      1 year ago

      If you approach veganism without intersectionality you quickly descend into ableism, classism etc.

        • SveetPickle@beehaw.org
          1·
          1 year ago

          If you tell someone working multiple jobs to give up animal products and they’re only realistic options to feed themselves is fast food that’s classist. I can elaborate more if need be but I’m at work on the clock 😂

            • SveetPickle@beehaw.org
              1·
              1 year ago

              Everyone’s experience with being vegan is different and I agree being vegan can be cheaper than eating an Omni diet, assuming you’re cooking fresh foods. those fake meats are more expensive than real meats, in my area anyways. I’ve been vegan for over five years now and I don’t spend a ton on food relative to friends and family.

              In my example of someone working multiple jobs the classist bit is assuming they have the time to prepare vegan meals, they may well have the means to afford it but not the time to prepare it. You also have to consider access to fresh ingredients can be difficult in certain areas especially if you’re already strapped for time due to working multiple jobs.

              Edit: basically my point is when we advocate for veganism we have to be careful about assumptions of the individuals means and conditions that may hamper their ability to be vegan in the way that me or you are able to be vegan. We should put a lot more emphasis on the “as far as possible and practicable” than we currently do.