different distribution fights. Different display manager/desktop environment/window manager users fight.
Why can’t they just left (stupid, means user that want a friendly and lagging desktop environment; ignore this word) users to use things like gnome and kde and other desktop environment, they can still use their wm for maximum productivity and performance.
This is a very stupid fight.
Look at the BSDs, OpenBSD users can laugh on FreeBSD for having to support wine, running ia32 binaries on amd64, broken at securelevel 1, having so many extension for ls(1). FreeBSD can laugh on OpenBSD for using giant lock (doesn’t take advantage of multiprocessor machine), …
Crap is still insulting them though, personally I think gnome is really good. I use hypr and love it but it’s also taken a gargantuan amount of effort to get it how I like it which not everyone wants, and before I switched gnome was doing perfectly fine
KDE and cinnamon I’m sure are similar boats, though I haven’t daily driven either of those yet
When you embrace Linux, you - sadly - also have to embrace the fiddling. Still, even in 2024. It’s gotten worlds better, but it still exists. But as it is a choice to swap to Linux - usually from Windows - you do not perceive this fiddling as a shared plight you can bond and laugh over, instead you see it as the “cost” of embracing Linux.
As a result, whatever setup you end up with has to be mentally justified to your own brain. A bit like a post-purchase rationalization. So you mentally consider your specific end result to be vastly superior to all other possible ones, after all, this is why you did it! You put in the work to create this, it must be superior.
Congratulations, you just called someone stupid who actually understands what a zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is.
KDE is perfectly sufficient for my needs. Used it even back in the days where I used XMonad as wm because it takes care of the 100000 tiny things that aren’t worth optimising.
Well I’m still going to tell you that gnome is bad software both from the user experience and their unwillingness to implement basic features, and that you should be using helix.
I also don’t like systemd but nixos happens to use it and I usually don’t have to deal with it so meh.
Look at the BSDs, they care about technical issues.
I do, too. But only when I’m working on it. Otherwise, as long as stuff just works, I’m perfectly happy to keep the bonnet closed. That was quite different in my early days, I actually daily-drove linux from scratch in the early 00s, but at some point you either decide to become an OS developer, or you lose interest.
>Gets (in my opinion rightfully) mad that someone called their preferred software dumb and says that it works just good for them
>Literally does the same for different software in the next statement
Why are some people like this… No, Gnome, KDE or some other stuff is not obviously bad, otherwise there wouldn’t be tons of people that really do know the different options be using and enjoying it. Just let people use it. You can list advantages and disavantages and why you personally prefer something else, but don’t call it outright bad or insult the users…
OP called users of the software stupid, not the software. While some of what gnome is is defensible and I just don’t like it, like having very little in the way of configuration options, the other part, like being unwilling to implement server-side decorations, makes it plain bad software. There’s a reason you hear people reply “well just don’t use gnome” to claims of “wayland is broken”.
Software can, indeed, be objectively bad. “Oh tastes just differ” is an appeal to false civility: No, if your bridge doesn’t get people across the river I don’t care how pretty it looks it’s broken. It might be a beautiful art piece, but it definitely isn’t a bridge.
OP called users of the software stupid, not the software.
(in my opinion the software is stupid, and users of stupid software are stupid :) because desktop environment is inefficient compared to pure window manager, and keyboard-based wm)
Well I’m still going to tell you that gnome is bad software both from the user experience and their unwillingness to implement basic features, and that you should be using helix.
I should?
I use what I want. (understand that you are advertising software here.)
I do, too. But only when I’m working on it. Otherwise, as long as stuff just works, I’m perfectly happy to keep the bonnet closed. That was quite different in my early days, I actually daily-drove linux from scratch in the early 00s, but at some point you either decide to become an OS developer, or you lose interest.
(See what technical issue I’ve written. See the pdf slides above.)
Side note there’s actually a project brining the glory of nix to the BSDs.
It’s very much a technical issue. Skimming your pdf it even talks about package building and delivery. Nixos is so good at that that I gladly put up with systemd is what I’m saying, depending on what you care about more it might even make you tolerate linux.
different distribution fights. Different display manager/desktop environment/window manager users fight.
Why can’t they just left (stupid, means user that want a friendly and lagging desktop environment; ignore this word) users to use things like gnome and kde and other desktop environment, they can still use their wm for maximum productivity and performance.
This is a very stupid fight.
Look at the BSDs, OpenBSD users can laugh on FreeBSD for having to support wine, running ia32 binaries on amd64, broken at securelevel 1, having so many extension for ls(1). FreeBSD can laugh on OpenBSD for using giant lock (doesn’t take advantage of multiprocessor machine), …
These are each operating system’s issue
But they don’t fight for that.
https://www.bsdfrog.org/pub/events/my_bsd_sucks_less_than_yours-full_paper.pdf
By calling them stupid you are actively participating in the fight yourself
There are very valid reasons both for and against WMs
Whole point of Linux is allowing user choice, why get on people’s cases about what they can and can’t use
Sorry :)
In my mind I call them “stupid” because I personally thinks desktop environments are “stupid”. Sometimes this flew on the keyboard. Sorry for that.
A better word to describe those de/wm is “crap”. Just my personal thought.
Crap is still insulting them though, personally I think gnome is really good. I use hypr and love it but it’s also taken a gargantuan amount of effort to get it how I like it which not everyone wants, and before I switched gnome was doing perfectly fine
KDE and cinnamon I’m sure are similar boats, though I haven’t daily driven either of those yet
No one wants their software to be called a “crap”, so I will not puke out again.
But many people doesn’t take “personally”. I wanted to write a post about this a few days ago but the op posted the meme.
“Linux users” cared about what their desktop environment looks so much.
This is my .cwmrc:
(EOF)
What’s your window manager?
I mean in a way I get it, psychologically.
When you embrace Linux, you - sadly - also have to embrace the fiddling. Still, even in 2024. It’s gotten worlds better, but it still exists. But as it is a choice to swap to Linux - usually from Windows - you do not perceive this fiddling as a shared plight you can bond and laugh over, instead you see it as the “cost” of embracing Linux.
As a result, whatever setup you end up with has to be mentally justified to your own brain. A bit like a post-purchase rationalization. So you mentally consider your specific end result to be vastly superior to all other possible ones, after all, this is why you did it! You put in the work to create this, it must be superior.
Congratulations, you just called someone stupid who actually understands what a zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is.
KDE is perfectly sufficient for my needs. Used it even back in the days where I used XMonad as wm because it takes care of the 100000 tiny things that aren’t worth optimising.
I’m actually praising that, since many Linux users care what desktop environment, what editor do others use. Just use what you want.
Look at the BSDs, they care about technical issues.
Well I’m still going to tell you that gnome is bad software both from the user experience and their unwillingness to implement basic features, and that you should be using helix.
I also don’t like systemd but nixos happens to use it and I usually don’t have to deal with it so meh.
I do, too. But only when I’m working on it. Otherwise, as long as stuff just works, I’m perfectly happy to keep the bonnet closed. That was quite different in my early days, I actually daily-drove linux from scratch in the early 00s, but at some point you either decide to become an OS developer, or you lose interest.
Side note there’s actually a project brining the glory of nix to the BSDs.
I like gnome. My only gripe is that workspaces should be per-screen. But all Linux DEs aside from a few isoteric tiling WMs get that wrong.
>Gets (in my opinion rightfully) mad that someone called their preferred software dumb and says that it works just good for them
>Literally does the same for different software in the next statement
Why are some people like this… No, Gnome, KDE or some other stuff is not obviously bad, otherwise there wouldn’t be tons of people that really do know the different options be using and enjoying it. Just let people use it. You can list advantages and disavantages and why you personally prefer something else, but don’t call it outright bad or insult the users…
In fact many “linux user” won’t tolerate others’ software :)
OP called users of the software stupid, not the software. While some of what gnome is is defensible and I just don’t like it, like having very little in the way of configuration options, the other part, like being unwilling to implement server-side decorations, makes it plain bad software. There’s a reason you hear people reply “well just don’t use gnome” to claims of “wayland is broken”.
Software can, indeed, be objectively bad. “Oh tastes just differ” is an appeal to false civility: No, if your bridge doesn’t get people across the river I don’t care how pretty it looks it’s broken. It might be a beautiful art piece, but it definitely isn’t a bridge.
(in my opinion the software is stupid, and users of stupid software are stupid :) because desktop environment is inefficient compared to pure window manager, and keyboard-based wm)
Please,
I should?
I use what I want. (understand that you are advertising software here.)
(See what technical issue I’ve written. See the pdf slides above.)
advertising. Don’t care.
It’s very much a technical issue. Skimming your pdf it even talks about package building and delivery. Nixos is so good at that that I gladly put up with systemd is what I’m saying, depending on what you care about more it might even make you tolerate linux.
advertising again.
The talks shows the attitude of BSD communities to each others.
Which most linux communities doesn’t have yet.