Muslim groups criticise ban, which they say will further stigmatise and marginalise their community

“The referendum outcome means Switzerland will follow France, which banned wearing a full face veil in public in 2011. Full or partial bans on wearing face coverings in public are also in place in Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark and the Netherlands.”

  • southerntofu
    21·
    4 years ago

    Classic talking point, thanks for bringing it up. The very same argument was precisely used by the far right in France about a decade ago. The law did not explicitly mention the burqa, however:

    • the law against wearing masks in public has only ever been applied to muslim women and protesters, never against veiled christian women (eg. nuns)
    • the law against religious signs in public administrations has only ever been applied to muslim veils, never against christian crosses or kipas (to my knowledge)

    Also, you didn’t read the article because it explicitly deconstructs your misinformed argument, stating:

    The initiative behind the referendum was launched in 2016 by the Egerkingen Committee, an association that also successfully pushed for a vote to ban the building of new minarets in 2009, and which has links to the populist rightwing Swiss People’s party.

    Campaign ads it paid for showed a woman wearing a niqab and sunglasses alongside the slogan: “Stop extremism! Yes to the veil ban.”

    So please stop normalizing racism. At least, read the article before you criticize something you have no knowledge of.

      • southerntofu
        3·
        4 years ago

        You can only be racist against a race. But I’m nitpicking here

        This is a common misunderstanding. Or don’t you consider antisemitism for instance to be a form of racism? See culture racism for more information on that.

        Who made the law does not matter. There is nothing specifically against muslims in the law.

        Doesn’t it matter when lobbies write the laws? Even when there is nothing specifically against the poor in those “social reforms” that will put millions more in poverty?

        the intent might’ve been racist but the law itself isn’t.

        Yes the law itself is very much racist, because it is intended and understood by the police and broader population as a means of racist policing. We already know from experience (eg. in France) that anti-face-cover laws are only applied against the muslim (or supposed-muslim) population. What is that kind of tyranny where the State dictates how we should dress ourselves?!

          • southerntofu
            2·
            4 years ago

            Making some rules regarding how people dress isn’t automatically tyranny.

            This line is super thin.

            And, do you support a (pretty misogynist) religion to tell women they will got to hell if they don’t wear certain types of clothing?

            I don’t support any religion, but i oppose anti-religious hatred which is itself a religion. Your argument is misinformed: islam is not more or less misogynist than other religions (or lack thereof). There’s plenty of feminism and misogyny in both religious and atheist circles, yes including muslim feminists in case you’re not aware.

            Also, your argument is factually incorrect. The sacred book of the muslims does not mandate wearing a veil (though recommends it in some situations via an anecdote) and certainly doesn’t say a woman who doesn’t wear a veil should go to hell.

            This law will affect 0.00043%

            So what? Does that make it less racist? A law banning Bittorrent usage would only affect a tiny minority of Internet users, would that make it less hostile to a free Internet? The rhetoric around this law and the racist neocolonial context we bathe in is what makes the law racist: people should dress how the hell they want. No one should be forced to wear a veil (or anything else), but noone should be prevented to.

            The moral policing in France forcing women to undress is just as misogynist as the moral policing in Iran forcing women to dress. Having an abstract body (the State) controlling women’s bodies and appearances is a core aspect of misogyny. In this specific case of a referendum, it’s a tyranny of the majority over minorities.

            Also, there is a long history of colonialism using rhetoric of “progress” and “protecting women from barbarism” despite evidence of the contrary. An example of that is the mass unveiling campaigns organized by the french occupation in Algeria.

            this law feels like an anti-protester law that exploited the population’s dislike of muslims to pass.

            There’s of course a little bit of that, though personally i would argue it’s the other way around. People in power certainly fear both social struggles and minority cultures (including islam) challenging their supremacy through multiculturalism.

            I recommend you take a breathe and start with a fresh look at the situation. Try to imagine yourself back in the 1930’s, would you consider a kippa ban in the same way you do a veil ban? Antisemitism is still pretty much around, but the europe-wide target of racist discourse and conspiracy theories is now islam. Key figures around our continent are advocating and preparing for a muslim genocide as is being achieved in some countries in Asia. Despite being an atheist, i’ve chosen my side of the struggle.

              • southerntofu
                3·
                4 years ago

                I’m not fond of any religion either.

                I can see that. But advocating against other people’s religions is already a religion of sorts. Even though i disagree with some fundamental assumptions it makes, i will fight for the right of people to have their own religion (or lack thereof) in the face of resurging fascism hiding behind the banner of “clashes of civilizations” and other racist nonsense. In the past decade the fascists have constructed the image of the “islamo-leftist” here in france which is the modern equivalent of the “judeo-bolshevik” conspiracy: it goes a long way to show who will be first on their extermination list. And if you think it’s only small fascist cliques advocating for genocide, you should be aware key public figures including government officials and famous writers have advocated for unregulated imprisonment and/or deportation of muslims and activists for years. Now even the heads of french government are advocating for cleansing universities from so-called “islamo-leftists”.

                I just think that even if muslims were the target of this law they weren’t the people hurt the most by it.

                Time will tell. I just know for sure it plays into a powerful fascist narrative and nothing good can come out of it, whoever gets the blame.

                  • southerntofu
                    2·
                    4 years ago

                    I didn’t think it was that bad in France…

                    Well it’s not the worst yet. Next year are the presidential election and we’ll “have to” choose between competing brands of fascism ;) I mean Macron was elected only because people wanted to vote “against” Le Pen, and he promised he would be the candidate of hope (etc), yet one of his first actions as president was to push new regulations to double the detention time of undocumented people (sans-papiers) from 30 to 60 days.

                    Also, some countries are way further down the road of fascism/tyranny so i wouldn’t like you to understand from my messages that France is the worst place on Earth and i’m a poor little victim of society, that is really not my point. We are really privileged in many regards as a country and enjoy a lot of personal freedoms despite some huge differences following class/race/gender lines. But racist/nationalist terrorism is a thing throughout the western world and not just France.

                    I mean you just have to look at the manifestos for school/church shooters blaming “feminists” and “immigrants” for all their problems to realize the actual terrorists the media frames as “deranged killers” are usually active nazis or another kind of neofascist. For example, the Christchurch shooter was heavily influenced by swedish neo-nazi mass-murderer Anders Breivik, and by french fascist-leaning public figure Renaud Camus. See also the Polytechnique massacre as an example of far-right antifeminist terrorism.

                    here in Hungary it ain’t much better either, but instead of kicking people out of universities the government kicks out the universities themselves

                    I heard repeatedly for about a decade that Hungary was turning into a dictatorship but i’m not familiar with your country. Do you have english/french-speaking resources you find interesting you would like to share, by any chance?

                    I will have to say sorry because I didn’t know much.

                    Yea, no worries, we all make mistakes. Just try to be super careful next you say something is not racist (or sexist), because history has been going on longer than we have and there’s often surprising explanations to situations which appear simple from the outside ;-)