Jordan Peterson talked about this very problem. He said they (young men who become Far Right Wingers) get close to the edge and then it takes almost nothing to push them over to the Far Right. This is where that person is, now. Icarus flew too close to the sun.
What is dangerous about wallowing in this putrescene too much: obvious truths lead to not so obvious truths lead to speculation couched in truths leads to Far Right ideology and pro-genocide ideology. It takes a while to get someone to that point.
Yes, the Holodomor killed more Ukrainians than Jews died in WWII. Yes, both were shit and genocide. That’s where entertaining “the facts” should really end. Explore the reasons for each. Understand why they happened. Ensure they do not happen again. But do not try to justify this or that for either. It’s a bad place to be, intellectually.
Fuck. My first comment on this site is about the Genocide of Jews and Ukrainians.
And correctly calling the Holodomor Genocide a genocide is not anticommunist propaganda. If you think what Stalin did in Ukraine is anything like communism, we need to talk to you about what communism actually means. Hint: genociding the proletariat, who were called the the “bread basket” of Europe, is the exact opposite of communism.
Not only was the 1932-1933 famine not a genocide, claiming that it was a genocide is a form of holocaust denial. The “holodomor” lie was started by Goebbels and disseminated by fascist media tycoon William Randalf Hearst. Mark Tuager and Wheatcroft and Davies have good work examining the actual causes of the famine, and the book Fraud, Famine, and Fascism offers a good look into how this fascist lie originated and was disseminated.
Are you published in any academic publications like the citation I included? What are you credentials to make this very odd and factually incorrect claim which no modern credentialed historian would claim?
This is the weirdest and grossest thing I’ve run across. What do you gain from denying that this was a genocide? How does that serve your political interests at all (it only serves to harm them).
You can call pushing back against some of the worst historical revisionism gross all you want, you’re still engaging in Holocaust denial by spreading this fascist propaganda.
And the most damning piece of evidence against anything at all you ever come up with, comes from Stalin himself:
“Famine in Ukraine was brought on to decrease the number of Ukrainians, replace the dead with people from other parts of the USSR and thereby to kill the slightest thought of any Ukrainian independence.”
This is Imperialism, not Communism. You oppose calling it correctly what it should be because you think it somehow damages Communism. When in reality, this damages the reputations of dictatorships and Imperialists, not communists.
you’re still engaging in Holocaust denial by spreading this fascist propaganda.
Literally me, telling you to stop being a holocaust denier, because you’re trying to deny the Holodomor Holocaust happened.
You’re either a Russian Troll or you deeply believe the Russian Propaganda lies. The second option is looking more correct.
Okay, I thought you might have been engaging in good faith. You are either clearly a fed or a headass liberal. You even cite the U.S. State department run Euromaiden press, which is nothing more than a Washington propaganda rag.
By the very cultural essence of the word, you calling the “holodomor” a capital-H “Holocaust” is undermining the historical truth regarding the actual Holocaust’s horrific inhumanity and obfuscating the 27 million+ dead Soviet citizens and soldiers who died ending it, including many Ukrainians.
Also, Stalin didn’t say that, it reads faker than the “one death is a tragedy, a bajillion is a statistic” idiocy. You’re glowing a bit too brightly, agent.
edit: Seriously, where the fuck did you get that quote hahaha, did you make it up? The University of Minnesota? “Holodomor Research and Education” in Canada? Kyivpost?
Anyways, the UN applied 5 characteristics to what is considered a genocide. The holodomor fit none of the 5 characteristics, maybe with the exception of 1 and 3 (which is not true).
For 1, it is true that the Soviet Union did kill Ukrainians, but it was belonging of a certain class. The rich peasant or kulak as it is known. Kulaks were exploitative, reactionary, and went so far to destroy crops and livestock. Peasant Ukrainians (and Ukrainians in general) were not targeted. So this doesn’t fit the definition. (Kulaks also existed outside the Ukraine as well, so it was clearly class struggle, not ethnic cleansing.)
As for the other criteria, they’re not worth talking about because it clearly didn’t happen during the 1931-33 Famine.
Oh and the Soviet Union didn’t fit the definition of Communism, as it had classes, it had a state and it had a means of circulation. It instead was socialist because it was lead by a Dictatorship of the Proletariat. Hope that makes it clear to you.
Jordan Peterson talked about this very problem. He said they (young men who become Far Right Wingers) get close to the edge and then it takes almost nothing to push them over to the Far Right. This is where that person is, now. Icarus flew too close to the sun.
What is dangerous about wallowing in this putrescene too much: obvious truths lead to not so obvious truths lead to speculation couched in truths leads to Far Right ideology and pro-genocide ideology. It takes a while to get someone to that point.
Yes, the Holodomor killed more Ukrainians than Jews died in WWII. Yes, both were shit and genocide. That’s where entertaining “the facts” should really end. Explore the reasons for each. Understand why they happened. Ensure they do not happen again. But do not try to justify this or that for either. It’s a bad place to be, intellectually.
Fuck. My first comment on this site is about the Genocide of Jews and Ukrainians.
Also only one of those was genocide so your first comment is also peddling anticommunist propaganda in communist place, FYI
Wait a minute…Are you a Holocaust Denier?
You deny that the Holodomor Genocide didn’t happen?
It’s not even controversial that it was a genocide and a Holocaust.
https://cla.umn.edu/chgs/holocaust-genocide-education/resource-guides/holodomor
And correctly calling the Holodomor Genocide a genocide is not anticommunist propaganda. If you think what Stalin did in Ukraine is anything like communism, we need to talk to you about what communism actually means. Hint: genociding the proletariat, who were called the the “bread basket” of Europe, is the exact opposite of communism.
If you are trolling me, good, you got me.
Not only was the 1932-1933 famine not a genocide, claiming that it was a genocide is a form of holocaust denial. The “holodomor” lie was started by Goebbels and disseminated by fascist media tycoon William Randalf Hearst. Mark Tuager and Wheatcroft and Davies have good work examining the actual causes of the famine, and the book Fraud, Famine, and Fascism offers a good look into how this fascist lie originated and was disseminated.
Are you published in any academic publications like the citation I included? What are you credentials to make this very odd and factually incorrect claim which no modern credentialed historian would claim?
This is the weirdest and grossest thing I’ve run across. What do you gain from denying that this was a genocide? How does that serve your political interests at all (it only serves to harm them).
Am I personally published in academic journals? No. But the authors I mentioned are. Here’s one of the works of one of the authors I mentioned:
https://newcoldwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Tauger-The-1932-Harvest-and-the-Famine-of-1933-Slavic-REview-1991.pdf
You can call pushing back against some of the worst historical revisionism gross all you want, you’re still engaging in Holocaust denial by spreading this fascist propaganda.
So your source is a Russian Holodomor Genocide denier from who is known to be a Pro-Russian Propogandist?
Are you kidding?
Here is a run down of how the Holodmor Genocide denialists, like Tauger, work:
https://euromaidanpress.com/2014/12/17/on-holodomor-denial-and-fisking-a-denialist-russian-professor-of-history/
And the most damning piece of evidence against anything at all you ever come up with, comes from Stalin himself:
“Famine in Ukraine was brought on to decrease the number of Ukrainians, replace the dead with people from other parts of the USSR and thereby to kill the slightest thought of any Ukrainian independence.”
This is Imperialism, not Communism. You oppose calling it correctly what it should be because you think it somehow damages Communism. When in reality, this damages the reputations of dictatorships and Imperialists, not communists.
Literally me, telling you to stop being a holocaust denier, because you’re trying to deny the Holodomor Holocaust happened.
You’re either a Russian Troll or you deeply believe the Russian Propaganda lies. The second option is looking more correct.
Okay, I thought you might have been engaging in good faith. You are either clearly a fed or a headass liberal. You even cite the U.S. State department run Euromaiden press, which is nothing more than a Washington propaganda rag.
Go back to reddit.
I never thought you were. You cited a Russian State Propogandist.
By the very cultural essence of the word, you calling the “holodomor” a capital-H “Holocaust” is undermining the historical truth regarding the actual Holocaust’s horrific inhumanity and obfuscating the 27 million+ dead Soviet citizens and soldiers who died ending it, including many Ukrainians.
Also, Stalin didn’t say that, it reads faker than the “one death is a tragedy, a bajillion is a statistic” idiocy. You’re glowing a bit too brightly, agent.
edit: Seriously, where the fuck did you get that quote hahaha, did you make it up? The University of Minnesota? “Holodomor Research and Education” in Canada? Kyivpost?
It is literally called that in the academic citation. You’re black washing history and should not be taking seriously.
What the fuck happened here.
Anyways, the UN applied 5 characteristics to what is considered a genocide. The holodomor fit none of the 5 characteristics, maybe with the exception of 1 and 3 (which is not true).
For 1, it is true that the Soviet Union did kill Ukrainians, but it was belonging of a certain class. The rich peasant or kulak as it is known. Kulaks were exploitative, reactionary, and went so far to destroy crops and livestock. Peasant Ukrainians (and Ukrainians in general) were not targeted. So this doesn’t fit the definition. (Kulaks also existed outside the Ukraine as well, so it was clearly class struggle, not ethnic cleansing.)
For 3, Stalin was not even aware of the Famine in the Ukraine when it took place. When he was, he stopped exporting grain to western nations and started to import more grain. so it didn’t fit the third criterion either.
As for the other criteria, they’re not worth talking about because it clearly didn’t happen during the 1931-33 Famine.
Oh and the Soviet Union didn’t fit the definition of Communism, as it had classes, it had a state and it had a means of circulation. It instead was socialist because it was lead by a Dictatorship of the Proletariat. Hope that makes it clear to you.
A YouTube link was detected in your comment. Here are links to the same video on Invidious, which is a YouTube frontend that protects your privacy:
lmao you open your first comment on this site with “Jordan Peterson said…” Obvious troll is obvious