Oh but we do know because we know about the atrocities Ukraine has been committing in Donbas for the past 8 years.
Those only exist within the context of a separatist movement that was encouraged by Russia and the invasion and annexation of Crimea. There’s no way to separate out any action by the Ukraine government from that situation that is largely caused by Russia.
Fun fact, Russia already had a base in Crimea before the coup. They didn’t even have to sweep in there.
There’s a difference between just a base and actively operating in the region. Russia said it was sticking to its bases even as it was operating covertly. Well, maybe covertly is giving them too much credit, but they were trying and lying. Then poof! They were operating overly, a mock election was held, and Russia annexed Crimea.
Those only exist within the context of a separatist movement that was encouraged by Russia and the invasion and annexation of Crimea. There’s no way to separate out any action by the Ukraine government from that situation that is largely caused by Russia.
I’ll once again link the following slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. First, here’s the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:
here’s how the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
Painting that as “a separatist movement encouraged by Russia” is the height of dishonesty.
There’s a difference between just a base and actively operating in the region. Russia said it was sticking to its bases even as it was operating covertly. Well, maybe covertly is giving them too much credit, but they were trying and lying. Then poof! They were operating overly, a mock election was held, and Russia annexed Crimea.
Just like NATO covertly planned and executed a color revolution that then poof overthrew the legitimate government in Ukraine.
Nice try, except that doesn’t break down by region which is the whole point of the graphs I linked. It doesn’t even mention if Donetsk was polled there. Given that it’s been in a civil war going on, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the Republican party think tank didn’t go into contested regions to poll people.
The source stated that Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk weren’t included, which is obvious because those were under Russian control.
Rendering the whole link irrelevant given that the discussion is about Donetsk and Crimea breaking away form Ukraine. Thanks for admitting that you linked an irrelevant source.
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
While there are stark differences, all regions show a plurality preferring the EU.
Just like NATO covertly planned and executed a color revolution that then poof overthrew the legitimate government in Ukraine.
So covert, there’s no actual evidence that they planned it at all. Just insinuation and conjecture.
Those only exist within the context of a separatist movement that was encouraged by Russia and the invasion and annexation of Crimea. There’s no way to separate out any action by the Ukraine government from that situation that is largely caused by Russia.
There’s a difference between just a base and actively operating in the region. Russia said it was sticking to its bases even as it was operating covertly. Well, maybe covertly is giving them too much credit, but they were trying and lying. Then poof! They were operating overly, a mock election was held, and Russia annexed Crimea.
I’ll once again link the following slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. First, here’s the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:
here’s how the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
Painting that as “a separatist movement encouraged by Russia” is the height of dishonesty.
Just like NATO covertly planned and executed a color revolution that then poof overthrew the legitimate government in Ukraine.
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You forgot to mention what platform Zelensky ran on there conveniently. Turned out to be a bit at odds with what his regime actually ended up doing.
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Nice try, except that doesn’t break down by region which is the whole point of the graphs I linked. It doesn’t even mention if Donetsk was polled there. Given that it’s been in a civil war going on, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the Republican party think tank didn’t go into contested regions to poll people.
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Rendering the whole link irrelevant given that the discussion is about Donetsk and Crimea breaking away form Ukraine. Thanks for admitting that you linked an irrelevant source.
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While there are stark differences, all regions show a plurality preferring the EU.
So covert, there’s no actual evidence that they planned it at all. Just insinuation and conjecture.
except that they clearly do not
There are mountains of evidence and entire research papers, but do go on.