except as a last measure to avoid injustice, such as lying to cops
In case this actually comes up for anyone in the US, absolutely do not do this. They’ll just slap a charge on for lying to police. You can even get charged for that alone! Clam up and tell them you won’t talk to them without a lawyer present. But absolutely, positively, do not lie.
It varies greatly with the situation. Of course if there’s a way for you to get caught, never lie to police. But when you know for sure with 100% certainty there’s no proof against you, coming up with a credible lie is often a good strategy. In many circumstances, refusing to talk to the police is what’s gonna get you arrested and/or charged under any kind of pretense. At least it is so in France.
Practical example: when cracking a squat, you have to reside in a place for more than 48h without having broken in illegally (this includes stepping over a wall). The only legal excuse you can come up with is “the door was open and i found the key”: anything else would incriminate you. If you make sure there is literally no way for cops to verify whether that was true, many lawyers would recommend actually saying this even if every body (cops included) know it’s a lie. Two things to consider:
the judicial system relies heavily on declarations you make to police: having a strong story/alibi helps a lot to evade legal trouble even when cops know you’re lying (and let you know they know)
having a consistent storyline helps to not incriminate oneself: in a group, if you don’t have a consistent story to tell, there are greater chances that somebody will “break” and incriminate themself (or the entire group)
Of course this is not legal advice and it all depends on the circumstances.
Ah, this was with regards to US law, which has protections around self-incrimination baked into our Constitution. Specifically, the Fifth Amendment (“I plead the fifth”), which guarantees that people cannot be coerced into self-incrimination. By extension, lack of self-incrimination cannot be included as evidence, since that would essentially moot the right.
Yeah i know about the law and how it’s depicted in TV series, but in reality cops will definitely get false confessions out of you. See also this video on police interrogations which agrees with you we should shut the hell up in most situations. I don’t know much about US law, but at least around here in France cops will get your fingerprints and DNA by force and it’s a criminal offense to refuse it (before they do it by force) if (and only if) you’re condemned for something else… but refusing to give fingerprints/DNA is itself an excuse used by cops to keep you in detention when you have committed no crime, just like refusing to talk to them (unless you are a very fancy person in a suit) has great chances of taking you to pre-trial detention even if you committed no crime at all.
In case this actually comes up for anyone in the US, absolutely do not do this. They’ll just slap a charge on for lying to police. You can even get charged for that alone! Clam up and tell them you won’t talk to them without a lawyer present. But absolutely, positively, do not lie.
It varies greatly with the situation. Of course if there’s a way for you to get caught, never lie to police. But when you know for sure with 100% certainty there’s no proof against you, coming up with a credible lie is often a good strategy. In many circumstances, refusing to talk to the police is what’s gonna get you arrested and/or charged under any kind of pretense. At least it is so in France.
Practical example: when cracking a squat, you have to reside in a place for more than 48h without having broken in illegally (this includes stepping over a wall). The only legal excuse you can come up with is “the door was open and i found the key”: anything else would incriminate you. If you make sure there is literally no way for cops to verify whether that was true, many lawyers would recommend actually saying this even if every body (cops included) know it’s a lie. Two things to consider:
Of course this is not legal advice and it all depends on the circumstances.
Ah, this was with regards to US law, which has protections around self-incrimination baked into our Constitution. Specifically, the Fifth Amendment (“I plead the fifth”), which guarantees that people cannot be coerced into self-incrimination. By extension, lack of self-incrimination cannot be included as evidence, since that would essentially moot the right.
Yeah i know about the law and how it’s depicted in TV series, but in reality cops will definitely get false confessions out of you. See also this video on police interrogations which agrees with you we should shut the hell up in most situations. I don’t know much about US law, but at least around here in France cops will get your fingerprints and DNA by force and it’s a criminal offense to refuse it (before they do it by force) if (and only if) you’re condemned for something else… but refusing to give fingerprints/DNA is itself an excuse used by cops to keep you in detention when you have committed no crime, just like refusing to talk to them (unless you are a very fancy person in a suit) has great chances of taking you to pre-trial detention even if you committed no crime at all.