Be very of these false narratives which seek to bend the framework of reality towards a position in accord with the US Empire.
This is not “a conflict between two bourgeois countries”. This is an abstract, undialectical analysis.
It is adapting the framework of Western Imperialists.
This is a complex conflict decades in the making, at it’s core, it is a war between Russia and the Blood Empire.
The Ukrainian people are being used as a weapon by their bloodthirsty American masters.
I hope people here see how deceptive and devious this “both sides bad capitalists” narrative is.
It is poisonous to us communist communities, and it shows that western propaganda is very much able to spread on GenZedong.
Do not allow them to infiltrate our minds.
Godspeed comrades. o7
As I said similarly above:
It is an abstract, undialectical analysis, which makes it completely false.
This immaterial, false abstraction is serving the American Empire.
How you could look at this physical bloodthirsty psychological weapon and say it is “they are half right” is beyond me if you are a dialectial materialist, you would recognize this abstraction as a psychological weapon of the Empire.
That is disgusting. This lie is part of the devil. Do not give the American Devil the pass.
The reason you do not have the same energy as me is because you do not recognize that this idea is a physical weapon of the American Empire that they are attempting to slash the social fabric of communist thought.
Thank you for your thoughts though comrade o7
Just to add, you also said:
This declaration is just as childish as making the declaration that Russia is doing this out of the goodness of their heart.
This is alarming, comrade. You are engaging in idealistic analysis. This is not dialectal materialism and not in accord with communist theory.
I agree that this “both sides bad” line supports the empire. But its rooted not in malice, but in a poor understanding of the actual situation on the ground. Many don’t even know what the DPR and LPR are and instead see this conflict in an entirely bourgeois vs bourgeois fashion. Once you reconize this 3rd element at play the analysis quickly changes from “both sides bad” to “Russia is playing a relatively progressive role on the world stage and in this conflict”. I feel you have quite a rose tinted view of Russia. You make it seem as if Russia is some altruistic proletarian society when in reality it is thoroughly capitalist to the core.
You also keep pushing this Russia VS west narrative ignoring the real struggle which is of the DPR and LPR against western imperialism and fascism. They have been fighting far longer and only now got Russian support because of Ukraine making moves to join NATO.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I firmly reject this idea that I am “viewing Russia with rose colored glasses”.
I am not “viewing” Russia through anything at all. I am not making any sort of moral, of ideological support of Russia.
It seems you believe I am engaging in morality judgement, where as a dialectial materialist, I reject.
I am looking and observing the physical phenomenon on the surface of the earth, and forming my analysis around the development of this phenomenon and nothing more.
And when I engage in this dialectal analysis, yes, it is true that what Russia is doing is a progressive force. That is not a moral judgement.
That is an objective reality. The multipolar world is being accelerated, objectively.
I make no moral judgements, but I do recognize the devil when it appears.
To call something a “devil” is itself engaging in moral arguments against “the bad” over “the good”. Unless you believe the US is made up of literal devils, as in those fictional creatures of “evil”. If you do believe that then you are delusional.
You are making it seem as though the Russian bourgeois goal is to give liberation to these people. That is untrue, their goal is to expand their power and defend themselves. They are driven by the same greed as the rest of the bourgeois, they are just too weak to enforce it purely with the stick so they must use the carrot. They would happily do everything the US does if they had the chance, but they don’t have that chance, so they can’t. They are not against capitalism in the slightest, they are just against the western bourgeois who are only representative of capitalism under western control.
If Russia was truely against capitalism as you claim it would be practicing socialism right now, the bourgeois would liquidate themselves. They want capitalism, they just want to be the ones on top.
Finally you claim that my analysis is undialectical when I’m the only one applying class analysis while you sling your empty slogans and tell me to “reflect” on my “idealistic contradictions” without supplying any kind of analysis of your own unless you consider America being a “devil” a proper substitute for class analysis. If that’s the case then you’d make a 3rd rate theologian and an even worse Marxist.
America is the physical devil, not because if moral judgement but because the economic core will lead objectively to the destruction of the planet. It is not a moral judgement. You are misinterpreting the essence of what I am delivering.
No I am not.
Absolutely hilarious. This is the same, western white perspective which white anarchists use to chastise China as a capitalist Dictatorship.
Again, you are engaging in even more dense idealism.
You claim if they wanted socialism they would liquidate themselves?
Comrade, they are bound by a material reality in which they are under the thumb of the American Empire. You are asking for the Russian state to commit suicide. If they were to abolish and overthrow their entire system they would be obliterated by the American Empire.
It is truly unbelievable that a self proclaimed Marxist could state that Russia must prove ideological accord by sabatoging and engaging in a destabilizing restructuring while they are UNDER FUCKING ATTACK BY THE GODDAMN FOURTH REICH, NATO.
HOLY FUCKING SHIT, COMRADE.
So you posit that the country of America has coalesced into the form of a devil? You have any idea how ridiculous that sounds. I know you meant to use such a term as “devil” as a metaphor just as I use words like “core”. There is no physical core just as their is no physical devil, it is a metaphor to more precisely describe something that is difficult to put directly to words.
So you think the Russian bourgeois who killed the USSR and bought the state for pennies on the dollar want to give up all of their wealth and power? Why haven’t they all joined the communist party yet, if they can’t fully liquidate themselves then modeling themselves off China is certainly a step in the right direction. Mandatory unionization, strong workers protections, focusing on poverty reduction and economic development. All of these are things the Russian national bourgeois choose not to do because they are bourgeois. China is actually ran by the proletariat. That is the difference.
And yes, you do make it seem Russia is some do no wrong impossible superhero when in reality its national bourgeois are just as self interested as any other country. They are just too weak to act like the west does.
If the Russian national bourgeois truly want socialism as you claim then why? What forces at play make them different from every other bourgeois (even the Chinese ones who, though under proletarian hegemony, still do push for increasing their own power out of self interest)? Are they just virtuous people (if yes what made them so?)? What causes them to totally reject their class interests?
You are misunderstanding.
When I call it the devil, I am not saying America is a fictional character with red skin and horns.
I’m saying America IS the Devil. That the American roads, corporate building, the bridges, the cable lines, electric lines, all of the physical structures of America are the Devil, and that is what the material Devil is.
I am not using the abstract construct of the Devil when I call America the Devil.
The American you see when you look at satellite images is the Devil. That is what the Devil looks like, it is America.
And you cannot deny the objective fact that this American Empire left undefeated is going to lead to the destruction of humanity and all life on earth.
I am NOT engaging in the abstract use of the word, instead I am using the word’s essence to encapsulate what America physically is.
First off, no I’m not making them out to be a superhero, it’s just that I recognize they are opposed to the American Empire and aligned with china, thus making them a progressive force.
You are acting like their opposition to America is insignificant, and rather focusing on the abstract idea of socialism, and judging Russia under this abstract pretense.
I am simply recognizing significant, objective realities, which are opposed got be American Empire and necessary for its destruction.
Maybe we can pull back the hostility and reach an understanding.
I’m not saying they want socialism. I’m saying they want a multipolar world, which objectively benefits socialism.
This is the key.
It’d be better if you never started the hostility in the first place but I’m fine with ending it if you like.
Honestly you are just sounding less material than before. So you are saying that a devil is America? As in the dude writing the Bible was just like “ah yes this configuration of roads, bridges, class dynamics and prison population rules over hell”? I’d get if you just admitted it was a metaphor. Materialists are in fact allowed to use metaphors, just not metaphysics which you are almost proposing at this point by imbuing the US with what amounts a an independent conscious. Sounds almost like what those unironic believers of living capital think when they say that capital literally has a mind of its own when in reality its just abstract value generated by workers. Its animism almost.
I already said Russia is a progressive force, you are the one who claimed that it stands against capitalism. The Russian national bourgeois definitely are striving towards multipolarity and that is objectively good. This is very different from them being against capitalism however. You are the one who claimed that the only reason Russia isn’t practicing socialism is because they are trying to mimic China. You are clearly backpeddling from that point after you made a whole show about how I’m acting like a white western idealist.
I’m going to move on from the Devil discussion because I am not using it as a religious term, only one of defining the Empire as the ultimate enemy of humanity. It is not significant.
Here is the issue we are having. I might not have been clear. I am not saying Russia stands against the concept or idea of capitalism. I am saying that it objectively is weakening the economic core of capitalism and bolstering a multipolar world, benefiting real, existing socialism and progress of humanity.
I never said this, and I reject that I am backpedaling. This claim was never, ever made. I only stayed that it stood against the white hegemonic core of Capitalism. I did not make clear in that comment that it does not meant they are ideologically progressing themselves towards a Russian socialism.
Maybe this is more clear now?
You also say it is “Capitalist to the core” but it is literally in opposition to the white hegemonic core of capitalism.
Again, comrade, you are engaging in abstraction and undialectical analysis.
Your word choice is ironically reflective of your idealistic thought. “Capitalist to the core”.
The actual core is the American Empire and the core is an enemy of Russia.
You need to reflect on this as it it is indicative of your idealistic contradictions.
People really need to realize there are two types of capitalist countries: a tiny minority of imperial core ones, and a shit ton of poorer exploited ones feeding them.
Revolutionary defeatism, if it applies at all, should only include the former.
Beautifuly said o7