• menemen
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    56
    arrow-down
    9
    ·
    edit-2
    4 months ago

    Reading about it I am not completly convinced that he is innocent, but I think that there is 100% plausible reason to doubt that he is guilty. This should defintly be enough to stop an execution.

    Edit: Maybe read the whole statement before getting a rage fit? I said he shouldn’t have been killed. I am also not moderate and (according to US standards) I am apparently not white as a muslim turkish person.

      • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        29
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        4 months ago

        I think there’s an interesting phenomenon where even white normies understand how demonically racist the American institutions are. Ideologically committed racists don’t, but everyone else sees at least part of it. However, because this only gives you a negative assertion (don’t trust what the courts say) and the isn’t really a normative, absolute system we can trust in the absence of any reliable rulings from the hegemonic institutions, we’re just left with a wide space of viable interpretations of reality, which lets people get off the hook for assuming reality must be close-ish to what said racist institutions uphold. That closeness between imagined reality and the reality white supremacy wishes to impose is what allows for people who aren’t ideologically committed racists to passively accept the brutalization and murder of marginalized people. “Oh, I can’t support those cruel acts, but the sad reality is they probably didn’t happen for no reason either” is the refrain of the embarrassed white moderate.

        • octopus_ink
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          4 months ago

          “Oh, I can’t support those cruel acts, but the sad reality is they probably didn’t happen for no reason either” is the refrain of the embarrassed white moderate.

          I’m ashamed to admit that specifically with regard to police brutality, I was in the “they must have had a reason” camp (without looking any further into it) for many more years than I had any excuse to be. Rodney King put a crack in that, but I was still pretty young then, and surrounded by my own privilege. It was many years later before I realized that sort of shit and worse was happening constantly.

            • octopus_ink
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              4 months ago

              Thanks, but the unfortunate problem I see among many of my white peers is that’s a deep valley. You don’t get to the other side of “they must have had a reason” without exposing yourself to multiple instances where they clearly had no such reason.

              And it’s not exactly something you can force on people. A couple people I know have started paying a bit more attention when cop videos float across their tiktok feed based on comments I’ve made, and they are coming around too, but folks need to want to see to the other side of that valley, and it’s a very comfortable valley to live in - and more importantly you’ve always got a fresh batch of people moving into the valley.

      • jsomae
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        4 months ago

        They just said they do not trust it though.

            • heggs_bayer@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              13
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              4 months ago

              Reading about it I am not completly convinced that he is innocent

              This implies there is a non-zero chance he was guilty. In reality, there is a zero percent chance he was guilty. Even implying there is a small chance he was guilty is white supremacy.

              Typical toxic masculinity.

              Typical liberal grasping at straws when your bigoted worldview is challenged.

            • Kuori [she/her]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              edit-2
              4 months ago

              hey dickhead, their pronouns are right in their username. don’t accuse non-men of “toxic masculinity”

      • menemen
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        4 months ago

        Maybe you should have read my whole statement before writing this wall of text?

          • menemen
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            4 months ago

            I am just arguing about his case within the local law. Not about the sanity of the local within moral boundaries. So we two are having two different arguments here.

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      4 months ago

      I’m convinced he is innocent. If he was not they would have evidence instead of paid testimonies against him.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      4 months ago

      That’s fine with a sentence of a couple years. But for how hard we’ve seen it become to commute a sentence, we need to be 100% sure for the death penalty.

      • menemen
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        4 months ago

        I basically said that it is not okay, maybe you should have read the second sentence as well. But even with a “sentence of a couple years”, guilt has to be profen, not innocence. If there is plausible doubt of guilt, there shouldn’t be a guilty sentence.

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          4 months ago

          Yeah, sorry it’s just worded weirdly and I didn’t get that you were referencing the reasonable doubt standard.

      • Mango@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        4 months ago

        Is “almost” anywhere in your definition of conviction? If so, you lack conviction.