• Barbarian@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Hi, I’m a Jew. I also absolutely hate Netanyahu and the entire disgusting coalition of Likud, Tkuma, Otzma Yehudit and all their Kahanist allies.

      It’s not anti-semitic to hate the government of the state of Israel, as much as they might like to pretend that the terms are synonymous.

      • Swarming@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        What does this have to do with his comment comparing Israel to Nazis and Netanyahu to Hitler?

        • Barbarian@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Honest question: as the Nazis were an explicitly Christian group, does hating the Nazi ideology make you anti-Christian?

    • Neato@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      You’re all over this thread defending Israel and now you’re equating Jewish people with the Israeli government. Bad faith arguing.

      • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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        1 year ago

        Equating all Jews with the monsters committing genocide is… What’s that word again? Oh, antisemitic, right. People simp for Israel so hard they become actual antisemites.

        • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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          1 year ago

          Removed. Antizionism and antisemitism are NOT the same thing. Being against the political policies of Israel is NOT the same as hating a people in general.

        • NovaPrime
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          1 year ago

          Just because you’re not intelligent enough to discern the clear difference between unsubstantiated hate against an ethnic group based on nothing bit their ethnicity and very real and justified hate against a genocidal, apartheid government hell bent on actually ethnically cleansing their neighbors and stealing their land doesn’t mean that others can’t tell the difference.

        • Neato@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Bad faith is trying to pretend that antizionism in 2023 is different to antisemitism.

          This argument is bad faith. Or you’re just plain wrong. You can pick.

    • ???@lemmy.worldOP
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      1 year ago

      Criticism of Israel ≠ Jew hatred.

      Unless you mean to say that, for example, every Jew in JVP is committing Jew Hatred on a daily basis.

        • ???@lemmy.worldOP
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          1 year ago

          Nope, just the people who use KHAMAS to differentiate themselves from the rest, it’s a signal.

            • ???@lemmy.worldOP
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              1 year ago

              I’m sorry, you didn’t notice how a number of people with British accents or who are from America just go out and say KHAMAS. Like, are you kidding me? Do you say “KHELICOPTER”? Hamas’ name in English follows the Arabic tradition of ح (ḥā) sound being turned into the “h” letter in English and pronounced like a normal h, and yes, it’s normal to say “Khamas” if your mother tongue is modern Hebrew, but I think you aew still oblivious to the fact that Israeli propaganda wants to “other” Palestinians (by calling them “Arabs”, for example). In this case, it’s by deliberately mispronouncing the English name of “Hamas” (any person interested enough in a thing usually learns to pronounce it correctly, lots of people in the UN said “Hamas” regardless of their mother tongue when they spoke proper English) but Israeli officials want to degrade Hamas, make Hamas sound bad through and through, and often when you hear KHAMAS, you also hear “KHAMAS ISIS” even though no self respecting expert would make such a comparison. But that all starts to look terrible when you realize that Hamas in Israel means all of the Gazan government. The IDF has bombed governmental buildings, stopped all social work, and obstructed police that were trying to rescue people from under the rubble because those police are “KHAMAS”. Any social worker or nurse at a public hospital is KHAMAS. etc.

              So when I say KHAMAS, please don’t think of me mocking a Jewish Israeli speaking on the news about the atrocity their witnessed on October 7th. Instead, think of [this man who’s quite a piece of work] (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LPnI6jD-k8I)

    • ShroOmeric@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      History is tolerated. And I’m talking about Israel no Jews. Maybe another few years back to school could help?

      • Swarming@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Israel, the Jewish state created after the Holocaust, and in which half of all Jews live, you mean?

        • floofloof@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          Yes. People don’t like the extremist and murderous policies of that state under Netanyahu. While antisemitism is still a problem worldwide, objecting to Israel’s treatment of Palestinians is not in itself antisemitism. The accusation of antisemitism has been used politically to deflect criticism of these policies.

          And of course such criticism doesn’t mean people like Hamas either. That’s another accusation that has been trotted out to deflect criticism.

          • Swarming@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I don’t like Netanyahu’s extremist policies either.

            Referring to “Zionists” as ‘Nazis’ is nevertheless antisemitic. Zionism is simply the belief in the right of self-determination of the Jewish people to a state of Israel in their historic homeland. It was created through international law by partition, just as many others were, but is unique in having its right to exist questioned.

            If you don’t like the people in charge, that’s fine. That’s not anti-Zionist. Claiming that Israel has no right to exist, that it should be destroyed and the Jews either dispersed or killed (by one means or another; this is also the inevitable outcome of a one-state ‘solution’), is antisemitic.

            • Pips@lemmy.sdf.org
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              1 year ago

              Arguing that there’s only one definition of Zionism or that yours is the correct one is disingenuous at best and antisemitic at worst. I personally prefer to just believe you’re uninformed given your inability to cite a source that supports your claims.

              Additionally, Israel is by no means unique in having its right to exist questioned. I’m not sure where that particular bullshit talking point came from but it’s sort of racist? Ukraine, for example, is waging a war for its right to exist in the face of Putin trying to restore the USSR. Georgia too. Maduro recently said Venezuela should just conquer Guyana. Taiwan has been under threat from mainland China for its entire existence, itself having a pretty similar story to Israel where an outside group moved in (Chiang Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang), who proceeded to control the indigenous population (who had already been through many rounds of occupation).

              Finally, you’re making a huge leap when you claim that people calling out the self-proclaimed Zionists controlling the government of Israel for committing war crimes equates to calling for the death of all Israelis and all Jewish peoples. Anyone can criticize the Israeli government, doing so is neither antisemitic nor is it wishing death on anyone.

            • ???@lemmy.worldOP
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              1 year ago

              Do you think your definition of Zionism matches what others believe about Zionism? Do you think your definition is the one applied today? Seems like most Zionists policies are racist towards Palestinians.

              • cecinestpasunbot
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                1 year ago

                I mean even the definition they gave is problematic. Palestine is a place full of ethnic and religious diversity. Privileging one part of the population necessitates the disenfranchisement of others. That’s what all expressions of Zionism entail.

            • Barbarian@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              I’d like to offer some corrections and clarifications.

              First, you are absolutely 100% right that Zionism is much bigger than just “Let’s go genocide”. The usage of Zionism today seems very muddied and strange, especially by non-Jews.

              Zionism is actually even more expansive than you describe here though: it’s simply the belief in the right of the Jewish people to a state. A lot of 19th century Zionists actually wanted to buy land in Africa to start a Jewish state to sidestep the thorny mess that is politics in the holy land. They lost out to Herzl in the first Zionist Congress though.

              Secondarily, I completely agree that anti-zionism based on Jewish dispersal is exactly identical to Palestinian genocide, just reversed. There are one-state proposals that could work if the crazy religious nutjobs weren’t in power in Israel and Gaza, working hand in glove to maintain power by mutual terror.

              I think when people that aren’t fully aware of the ideologies are hating on Zionism, what they’re actually against is Kahanism, they just don’t know the terminology.

            • floofloof@lemmy.ca
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              1 year ago

              That’s a good clarification. I wonder how often, when people endorse statements like that, they simply don’t understand that Zionism embraces a lot more than Israel’s far right wing or think through the implications. Sometimes, for sure, it’s a deliberate style of messaging from antisemites.

              • ???@lemmy.worldOP
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                1 year ago

                For 75 years of history, Zionism had been killing Palestinians, it doesn’t matter who is in government, seemingly.

    • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      Israel is an ethno-state, people fighting on behalf of Israel want to eradicate Palestinian people. This doesn’t have anything to do with Jewish people in general. To conflate Israel with Jewish people is itself antisemitic.