• LucyWildboots 🏳️‍🌈@c.im
    0·
    2 years ago

    @jupiter_rowland I keep hearing that it’s hard to move. But I did it. It took me 3 hours and it only took that long because I wanted to separate my following to three different services. One was Pixelfed and the other was Frendica. Perhaps it did not take me so long because I’m not as invested in my own posts as others appear to be. So this, “it’s hard” excuse feels a little weak to me.

    I do not understand why it is so hard for people who communicate in the world of defederation to understand that not all tools using the fediverse need be the same. You really need to get over it. Tumblr is not going to have the same tools as Masto or Frendica and you aren’t going to require that they do. Every company that uses ActivityPub will bring different features and that’s how it should be. So why must everything be the same here?

    Getting every member of the queer and trans communities to agree on any one thing is like asking all Democrats to agree on any one thing. And I think you, Jupiter, are smart enough to know that. So let me ask you, which one do you want? Peter Thiel or me? George Santos or Rachel Maddow? The fact that people were harassed is a truth. The fact that you do not know that truth speaks to your lack of knowledge, not to the veracity or the historical fact. So let me ask you a question: how many? How many people have to come forward with their moment on Twitter when they were harassed and brought to tears. How many people need to be deliberately dead named or doxxed. How many is enough for you?

      • LucyWildboots 🏳️‍🌈@c.im
        0·
        2 years ago

        @jo @jupiter_rowland I’m happy for you. I certainly celebrate those who have had that luxury. I guess that the rest of us should stop “panicking” that the assholes who did these things will come to the fediverse and do the same thing? We have consistency of application of rules across instances, right? Or perhaps we should be less hysterical in our concerns that we might get stuck on a queer instance where you aren’t allowed to discuss certain games. I mean, I hear it’s so damn hard to move from one place to another. I cannot believe you actually used panic to denigrate people who give a shit. What an entitled comment.

        • Kevin Davidson@mas.to
          0·
          2 years ago

          @LucyWildboots @jo @jupiter_rowland There are strong feelings on both sides of this, which is going to result in emotive language.
          I’ve definitely seen celebrities dunking on small accounts and driving them off Twitter. But also, I use QT myself - mostly to add context or to refer back to my own previous posts.

          • Kevin Davidson@mas.to
            0·
            2 years ago

            @LucyWildboots @jo @jupiter_rowland My confirmation bias means I believe all the studies saying it’s not the tool that causes harassment, as people intent on harassing will use any method available, including simple replies, to cause harm. The fix is cultural, not technical, although speed bumps and guide rails probably help to nudge behaviour away from unwanted and towards more positive community behaviour. Maybe.

            • LucyWildboots 🏳️‍🌈@c.im
              0·
              2 years ago

              @MetalSamurai @jo @jupiter_rowland

              ‘It’s not the gun that kills people. It’s people using the guns who kill people?’

              Am I the only one old enough to remember that canard from the NRA in America? And America, because it loves its guns, buys into it. So we create laws that nudge gun rights this way and that without ever really getting anywhere. And when something bad happens we wring our hands and offer thoughts and prayers. And Europe, with it’s own bloody past, looks on condescendingly and tsks.

              ‘QTs don’t hurt people. People using QTs hurt people.’

              So how many QTs have to hurt someone before we admit they can be used as weapons of verbal war and treat them accordingly and where are the ‘tskers’?

              Note: This is an analogy for those who don’t recognize them as such. This is not a position one way or another on guns or gun control.

                  • aRubes@sloth.run
                    0·
                    2 years ago

                    @LucyWildboots@c.im it’s not as if there’s no evidence at at all, though, that supports the claim that it is not the accessibility of the QT button that drives abuse.
                    Just as individuals’ stories can not be brushed aside it can not be brushed aside.

                    Anyway, As it stands now you are relying on one person’s or one term’s decision, I believe, and that can not be counted on long-term. We have seen mastodon give up on some of its traditional principles.

                    Assuming for the sake of the argument that it is indeed the availability of that button that significantly promotes abuse, I believe that in the long run the problem can only be solved by

                    1. Community with rules and enforcement and norms, and/or
                    2. Forking Mastodon to maintain a version that complicates the behaviour as in pre-2015 twitter, or
                    3. Abandoning ​:activityPub:​ altogether as it allows this feature in other software which will become more familiar over time and probably will start spreading faster than Mastodon once someone with lots of money decides to invest heavily.

                    @jo@blahaj.zone @MetalSamurai@mas.to @jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

              • Jo (she/her)@blahaj.zone
                0·
                2 years ago

                @LucyWildboots@c.im 37 studies dispel the myth that it’s quote tweets that were the problem on Twitter. Sorry, but those who keep saying it is despite the wealth of evidence and the reality that the #Fediverse operates on completely different mechanisms to the other place, are engaging in unsubstantiated moral panic. There are 1 million users on Fediverse platforms that have a quote post feature, most of them on microblogging platforms like #Calckey #Misskey #Akkoma that are similar to #Mastodon and interact at-large with Mastodon users.

                https://blahaj.zone/notes/9a4skxq0lw

                @MetalSamurai@mas.to @jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

                • Probably Paul 🌍@c.im
                  0·
                  2 years ago

                  @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland @LucyWildboots Not exactly disputing those studies, but every time I got dogpiled at the other place, it was because a large account had QT’d me to tens of thousands of their own followers with some snarky comment. That hasn’t happened so far on the fedi.

                  Granted, I have hundreds of followers rather than the thousands I had over there, and try to keep a lower profile, but still… 🤔