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2 years ago@aRubes There’s a mountain of evidence on guns because we’ve been fighting over them for decades. We’ve been arguing about QTs both here and on Twitter since they were implemented ~10 years ago.
LucyWildboots 🏳️🌈
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Joined 2 years ago
Cake day: February 10th, 2023
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@amart it is not different on Masto. You can QT now on Masto, but it’s kludgy as I think you discovered. On Frendica you can easily QT or you can turn QT off in your settings. CalKey and several others also have QT. But these apps are tiny compared to Masto.
So the discussion isn’t really QT doesn’t already exist and must never be created. It’s more a discussion of “Why don’t we onboard people to the best tool for them be it Masto, Calkey, Frendica or Pixelfed” vs “we want easy QT on Masto because that’s where we’ve been for a whole four months and moving is hard.”
It is also a discussion on why we allow tools to be improved and propagated without ever discussing the damage those tools have historically caused others and what damage to others they are willing to risk to get a tool they can already have if they simply changed from Masto to a half dozen other apps.
I believe that Masto will eventually get some form of QT. What I hope is that we will get all the backend tools that will be needed to support 13 million people better than Twitter and Facebook ever did. That we will get onboarding not just for Masto but also for the fediverse as a whole. That we will get dozens of other tools and features we need more first.
@BarrenPlanet @fediversenews @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland
@MetalSamurai @jo @jupiter_rowland
‘It’s not the gun that kills people. It’s people using the guns who kill people?’
Am I the only one old enough to remember that canard from the NRA in America? And America, because it loves its guns, buys into it. So we create laws that nudge gun rights this way and that without ever really getting anywhere. And when something bad happens we wring our hands and offer thoughts and prayers. And Europe, with it’s own bloody past, looks on condescendingly and tsks.
‘QTs don’t hurt people. People using QTs hurt people.’
So how many QTs have to hurt someone before we admit they can be used as weapons of verbal war and treat them accordingly and where are the ‘tskers’?
Note: This is an analogy for those who don’t recognize them as such. This is not a position one way or another on guns or gun control.
@jo @jupiter_rowland I’m happy for you. I certainly celebrate those who have had that luxury. I guess that the rest of us should stop “panicking” that the assholes who did these things will come to the fediverse and do the same thing? We have consistency of application of rules across instances, right? Or perhaps we should be less hysterical in our concerns that we might get stuck on a queer instance where you aren’t allowed to discuss certain games. I mean, I hear it’s so damn hard to move from one place to another. I cannot believe you actually used panic to denigrate people who give a shit. What an entitled comment.
@jupiter_rowland I keep hearing that it’s hard to move. But I did it. It took me 3 hours and it only took that long because I wanted to separate my following to three different services. One was Pixelfed and the other was Frendica. Perhaps it did not take me so long because I’m not as invested in my own posts as others appear to be. So this, “it’s hard” excuse feels a little weak to me.
I do not understand why it is so hard for people who communicate in the world of defederation to understand that not all tools using the fediverse need be the same. You really need to get over it. Tumblr is not going to have the same tools as Masto or Frendica and you aren’t going to require that they do. Every company that uses ActivityPub will bring different features and that’s how it should be. So why must everything be the same here?
Getting every member of the queer and trans communities to agree on any one thing is like asking all Democrats to agree on any one thing. And I think you, Jupiter, are smart enough to know that. So let me ask you, which one do you want? Peter Thiel or me? George Santos or Rachel Maddow? The fact that people were harassed is a truth. The fact that you do not know that truth speaks to your lack of knowledge, not to the veracity or the historical fact. So let me ask you a question: how many? How many people have to come forward with their moment on Twitter when they were harassed and brought to tears. How many people need to be deliberately dead named or doxxed. How many is enough for you?
@mathias @bgtlover @AskPippa @raccoon Assuming there is a single reason why Twitter failed is naive at best and self-serving at worst. And saying “this was worse than that” is an effort in futility.
Each community will have different experiences in what part of Twitter made it worse. Having been on Twitter since 2007 I will say categorically that QTs are and were used to harass and attack other people. Those who deny it, generally deny it because they want QT. In fact, most deny it because they want their Twitter and they will insist that they get it and screw the people who are already here. People who actually came here because this place was different.
And I find it particularly maddening given the fact that people who use Frendica and other services that have QT continue to insist that the world needs QT. If the world really needed it, Frendica would be experiencing massive growth and it is not.
Consent. We are built on consent. If I want to see a man’s dangly bits, I can. I can consent by opening a CW. If, for some bizarre reason I want to see your Wordle, I can. If I want a safe place for queers, I can find it here.
To date, nobody has offered a QT that will give me the right to consent to you breaking my thread so you can make a point; consent to include my posts in your thread when you QT; consent to you using my work; consent; consent. How many people have to object? How many of us who are queer or disabled or trans or a furry have to worry again about whether our true selves need protecting?
@AskPippa @bgtlover @raccoon @fediversenews @fediverse Since exploring the feasibility of QT is now on the official dev plan, I suspect we will find out in the future. I don’t want them. I’ve seen too many people deliberately hurt by them. Do we need some functionality that will help communities develop? Yes. But I think that it is more better handled by groups which is on the active development schedule.
As for the news people who claim they absolutely have to have them, they can. On Frendica. I would take their requests more seriously if I hadn’t recently seen an article where they joked about missing Twitter and being able to sign on every morning and start QT wars. At least he was honest.
@jupiter_rowland I mean we could leave Eugen alone but no dev EVER accused me of being satisfied with everything. So I suspect I’ll always be one of those wanting more. But…
Yes, we’re onboarding to Masto instead of onboarding to the Fediverse and that is skewing everything from dev cycles to forcing people to move. So for you and I, the only thing we have left to argue about is how hard it is to move.
Now I would not want to be you and have to move. Because you will lose a lot of things you have built over time. But I doubt most people will have that many things to lose if they’ve only been around for 3-4 months. So here is my experience: I moved about 350 followers from .lol to c.im in less than 30 minutes. I then moved part of those 350 followers to Pixelfed and part to Frendica manually (that was painful). I lost two hashtag searches that I had to recreate and that took 3 minutes?
But lost in all discussions about how or whether it is hard are discussions about the fact that you can move at all. I mean it’s not close to perfect, but it’s better than anyone else has come up with so far.