Israel’s strike on the Jabalia refugee camp has led to more intense pushback from the Biden administration.

The Biden administration requested Israel detail the thinking and process behind the recent strike on the Jabalia Refugee Camp in Northern Gaza, according to a U.S. official, who like others was granted anonymity to discuss sensitive conversations.

“The U.S. asked for an explanation of the first [attack] on Jabalia,” said the official, adding that the conversation was in the context of “asking Israel to do more to avoid civilian casualties.”

    • cozz33@kbin.social
      22·
      1 year ago

      Here is evidence of Hamas telling Palestinians to stay put https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-tells-gaza-residents-stay-home-israel-ground-offensive-looms-2023-10-13/

      Here is evidence of Israel giving 24 hours notice before bombing and saying that the bombings will not stop until all hostages are released https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna120042

      Here is evidence that neighboring countries do not want Palestinian refugees https://www.newsnationnow.com/world/war-in-israel/jordan-egypt-palestinian-refugees/

      Here is evidence of why neighboring countries don’t want Palestinian refugees https://m.jpost.com/middle-east/70-years-ago-jordans-king-assassinated-by-palestinian-on-temple-mount-674480

      All this evidence is painting a very complicated picture. One that shouldn’t be fought over like a sports game.

      • TinyPizza@kbin.socialOP
        21·
        1 year ago

        Says the person stumbling over themselves in a one person conversation. I at least hope you find some satisfaction out of all this effort. I honestly tuned out after your first comment. Please let me know how everything turns out when you finish talking this out with yourself. I’m sure I’ll care.

        • cozz33@kbin.social
          11·
          1 year ago

          This was all I needed to hear. Facts be damned your mind is already made up. I don’t think I even need to explain how dangerous this way of thinking is.

          • TinyPizza@kbin.socialOP
            21·
            1 year ago

            No, you’re just annoying and I don’t like talking to you. Nothing forces me to have a conversation with anyone. Believe whatever you like, I’m sure that sword swings both ways ;P

      • queermunist she/her
        15·
        1 year ago

        Here is evidence of Hamas telling Palestinians to stay put

        This needs context, because it’s even more complicated. They’re worried about a second Nakba, if Palestinians evacuate they will likely never be allowed to go home.

        Here is evidence of Israel giving 24 hours notice before bombing and saying that the bombings will not stop until all hostages are released

        And zero guarantees that the bombings won’t resume after the hostages are released. Giving up their only leverage would be foolish. By keeping the hostages they are strategically destabilizing Israel, because it makes Israelis unhappy with their government. Knowing your government is going to kill your family has an effect on people, regardless of the reasons.

        Here is evidence that neighboring countries do not want Palestinian refugees

        Again, more complicated. They can’t handle a million+ extra people, especially when they’d be coming with nothing but the clothes on their backs. The burden of a refugee crisis could actually collapse Egypt, they can’t afford this.

        If Israel gave a shit they’d take refugees into Israel itself.

        It’s complicated, but it’s not inexplicable.

        • cozz33@kbin.social
          1·
          1 year ago

          This entire argument was spawned because a commenter pointed out that no, Israel is not going to let a group that effortlessly blends in with the civilian population into their country. Thank you for at least addressing my points. A lot of this comes down to who do you trust? I really don’t trust either side personally, but from all the research I’ve done I’ve found mountains of evidences of intense hatred of Jews in this region long before WWII. I’ve found mountains of evidence pointing towards the land being bought legally prior to the 1948 declaration of war. If you are interested I can provide multiple sources for you about it. I don’t have an agenda and I’d like to see a ceasefire. I just want people to be informed.

          • queermunist she/her
            35·
            1 year ago

            I’ve found mountains of evidences of intense hatred of Jews in this region long before WWII.

            You’re talking about the the First Aliyah, and the anti-Jewish sentiments that arose in response were inherently tied to the Zionist nationalism among the new migrants who wanted to eject Arabs to form a Jewish ethnostate.

            Zionism has always been a racist project. It smears all Jews with the crimes of the Zionist entity and directly and intentionally raises antisemitism around the world, forcing Jews to flee to Israel to become settlers. That’s partly why the global North supports it so strongly - it gets the Jews out of their countries.

            The other reason is it whitens the so-called Middle East by injecting them with American and European settlers, and gives the empire a strong position in the region.

            The racial component is definitely complicated, but Zionism is unquestionably wrong and racist and must be opposed. What is needed is a single multi-ethnic democratic state, not an Arab state or a Jewish state.

            I’ve found mountains of evidence pointing towards the land being bought legally prior to the 1948 declaration of war.

            What? I’m pretty sure the British fucking stole it from the Turkish occupation, the Palestinians never had self determination.

              • cozz33@kbin.social
                11·
                1 year ago

                Forgot to address your final point my apologies. Here is one of many pictures that can be found of Jews purchasing the land https://i.imgur.com/5fYx5Ud.jpg

                What you said about the British stealing it may be true but why place the blame on Jews? The man in that picture doesn’t look British. They bought the land with money they saved up for to flee extermination in Europe.

                • queermunist she/her
                  25·
                  1 year ago

                  Buying stolen land is not legitimate lol

                  That’s not about blame, that’s just about nationhood. A nation built on stolen land is always a settler-colony (looking at you Amerikkka)

              • queermunist she/her
                15·
                1 year ago

                The “persecution of Jews in that area for 1000s of years” in your link gives examples of Spanish antisemitism though. You’re doing the thing where you assume all Muslims are Arabs. Also it lists Christians being persecuted alongside them, no sure how you interpret that.

                Now as for racism, it’s not like US racism where there’s a clear dividing line between races with whiteness being the privileged racial class.

                It’s more like colorismo in Latin America, where the lightness of skin correlates with social, political, and economic privileges. There’s a reason why the ruling class in Israel all have light skinned faces and Arabs, even Jewish ones, deal with racial discrimination. A dark skinned Jew will need to prove their Jewishness in ways a light skinned one won’t.

                However it does have a racial component similar to the US; free people of color were considered legally white if they had less than either one-eighth or one-quarter African ancestry, and in Israel you’re considered legally Jewish if you have at least one-eighth Jewish ancestry. Also? Inter-“faith” marriage is illegal, again similar to laws against interracial marriage in the US. Interesting parallels.