- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- world@lemmy.world
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Why are we judging what we should do bad on what terrorists are doing instead
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Everyone involved in this discussion in general
Do you genuinely believe that Israel is intentionally killing everyone in Gaza?
If so, why are they so bad at it that civilian casualties aren’t in the hundreds of thousands yet? They have total military superiority. It would be really easy to do that.
Is Israel so incompetent that they can’t “shoot fish in a barrel” or is this take maybe really dumb?
They’re destroyed half of all homes in Gaza and have cut off all access to food and water including bombing UN relief supplies as they come in.
Is your take maybe really dumb?
Source on half of homes destroyed? That is a LOT of bombs.
including bombing UN relief supplies as they come in
Weird that UN said trucks, as well as Egyptian aid trucks that Israel negotiated for are still in Gaza then.
Go look up articles that explain why this qualifies as genocide instead of trying to incorrectly nitpick what qualifies as genocide.
It does not qualify as genocide and you’d have to be an idiot to believe any article that suggests it does.
However, it sounds worse if you pretend it is, and that’s all you care about anyway.
In a couple of months when there are still Palestinians in Gaza, I’ll be reminding you of this conversation.
You say that, but, I’m going to go ahead and listen to my training in international relations and law, the well-reasoned arguments based on established legal definitions, and a first-hand witnessing of the evidence in favor of the conclusion, instead of you.
I mean you can believe whatever you want, because it isn’t changing anything, but I don’t think the couple undergrad courses you took makes you better-equipped than the experts and historians who informed my worldview.
So long as you don’t do something crazy like attack random innocent Jews at your next protest, I don’t give a shit about your opinion. I will argue against it online, though. You don’t seem particularly violent so we’re just ships in the night here.
If you have to hide your decisions behind pedantry you know you are in the wrong
Did Canada conduct a genocide against the indigenous?
Yes and so did America
They certainly tried!
No, we didn’t try. We did commit genocide against our indigenous people. Arguably we still are. Genocide does not require the wholesale destruction of a people.
Are you really trying to conflate these two situations?
Just seeing where you draw the line.
or is this take maybe really dumb?
It should be a red flag to stop and revaluate your morals when it comes time to explain why something isn’t genocide.
You can call literally any shit genocide and it would be indefensible to argue otherwise under your logic.
But we aren’t talking about cookie genocide from eating a box of oreos.
People without food, water or electricity are dying in mass to bombings from Isreal and your defending the action by saying it’s not efficient enough to be a genocide. People are dying and you are playing word games.
Seriously. Stop, walk away and really think about what is important to you
I’m not the one playing word games by calling this war genocide.
War is indeed terrible. Civilians, especially the poor, are always the ones suffering the most in any war.
That doesn’t make every war genocide, and that language has consequences.
War is between two armies, so why is Isreal cutting off food, water and electricity to the entire population? Why can’t the people of Gaza leave? Why does Isreal control every facet of life in the strip? Why does Isreal use tanks against kids with rocks?
It’s not war when one side is trapped without basic utilities and the other is a well funded army.
War is between two armies, so why is Isreal cutting off food, water and electricity to the entire population?
This is how war is fought. It is standard US doctrine, for instance.
Why can’t the people of Gaza leave?
Their neighbors won’t take them after some refugees attempted coups and formed terrorist organizations. I personally disagree with viewing all Palestinian refugees as inherently dangerous, but their neighbors do not.
Why does Isreal use tanks against kids with rocks?
They’re using tanks against combined-arms forces that include current-generation, high-tech weaponry. It says a lot about your ignorance of Hamas that you think they’re made up of “kids with rocks.” This isn’t 2014.
Israel isn’t invulnerable and even in its hate, arrogance and greed, it knows.
The world can and would turn on them and destroy them.
Israel is invulnerable while the US and most of Europe exists. No one is turning from them. It’s simply not happening.
You are completely right. If Israel really wanted to exterminate Palestine the whole thing would look drastically different and would have been completed years and years ago. Instead Israel left Gaza and all they received for that is constant missile attacks.
I’ll tell you one thing - I’ve been on reddit just trying to provide some counters to the (extremely genocidal) conversation going on over there, but the censorship is just out of control. /r/worldnews mods will straight up permaban you for a comment like “I just wish everyone would try to resolve this peacefully”. You look at the front of /r/worldnews any day, it’s 60% articles from Israeli newspapers and the comments are just 75% “[removed]”.
One of the biggest discussion sites on the internet and they’ve basically weaponized it into a propaganda tool. Shameful time we live in.
Reddit has been extremely trash. Going back from time to time wondering if the people there are talking about topics I’m interested in that haven’t gained traction on lemmy has made me seriously question why I ever liked using that site. You’re absolutely right about the genocidal conversation on r/worldnews, it’s so disgusting.
That sub isn’t officially right-wing, but it’s definitely right-wing. I’ve seen a ton of transphobic bullshit upvoted there too, for example.
It has been the same way for many years. I remember that’s why people started world politicssub but that was taken over or something. Most of reddit has become a breeding ground for hate filled Americans and Israelis who think there is no higher calling in the world but to kill terrorists and any amount of collateral damage is acceptable. Of course every definition of terrorists also applies to Israel but they don’t see the irony of that.
If you’re using r/worldnews as the bar for impartiality then that’s your problem
Is ongoing genocide really the place for a “ha ha, the other site sucks” post?
I’m not laughing.
Why is “good progress” in quotes but not “war with Hamas?”
Characterizing the leveling of Gaza as a war with Hamas is Israeli propaganda.
‘Good progress, with this kill rate we’ll be done in a few years!’
This is the best summary I could come up with:
(tldr: 6 sentences skipped)
Hagari also said Israel would allow trucks carrying food, water and medicine to enter Gaza on Saturday, indicating that bombing might pause, at least in the area of its border with Egypt where small amounts of aid have been arriving.
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Medecins Sans Frontieres (Doctors Without Borders) said it was particularly worried for patients, medical staff and thousands of families taking shelter there and at other health facilities.
An Al Jazeera correspondent, reporting live on Saturday morning, described the cut in internet and phone communications as “catastrophic” for rescue efforts following a night of heavy Israeli bombardment.
(tldr: 11 sentences skipped)
There has been growing speculation that a Qatari-brokered deal to release more hostages was imminent but Israeli military spokesman Hagari said Hamas was cynically manipulating the situation.
(tldr: 7 sentences skipped)
The armed wing of Hamas, the al-Qassam brigades, said early on Saturday its fighters were clashing with Israeli troops in Gaza’s northeastern town of Beit Hanoun and in the central area of Al-Bureij.
(tldr: 3 sentences skipped)
The United States and other Western countries have offered strong support to Israel but had urged it to hold off on a ground offensive for fear that high casualties among Palestinians would fuel wider conflict.
(tldr: 8 sentences skipped)
The original article contains 1,126 words, the summary contains 215 words. Saved 81%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Obviously hitting some weapons cache from the secondaries on the clips I’ve seen.
Without knowing who I am talking about, which would you say is closer to your view: If a group fires rockets and kills civilians, is it
A) An act of terror for which the group should be punished
B) A regrettable outcome but permissible because they should have the right to defend themselves
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A false dichotomy.
For the purposes of what is going on: one government attacked another government, leading to retaliation. In both cases, civillians were predominantly targeted.
Hamas are terrorists, no doubts about it. But they are also the government of Gaza. And the Israeli Government/IDF/Mossad have been engaging in a slow genocide of a people in what amounts to a concentration camp for decades.
There are no “good guys” in this war. And it is a war. And, like in all wars, it is the civilians who suffer. The Israelis and tourists who were viciously attacked and brutalized. And the Palestinians being used as human shields by Hamas.
And… that is also why a “two state solution” is off the table. Because it will just mean Hamas becomes legitimized and consolidates their power.
But… there is also no situation where the Palestinians survive under the Israeli government.
But… there is also no situation where the Palestinians survive under the Israeli government.
In current day Israel there are more than 2 million Arab/Palestinians, more than 20% and growing… While in Gaza strip the Jewish population is 0, and won’t ever grow…
Before I go off on how that post comes across: What point are you trying to make?
Also, ignoring that there were 214000 Jewish people in the West Bank and Gaza in 2002 and that is unlikely to have reached actual zero (https://www.prb.org/resources/the-west-bank-and-gaza-a-population-profile/), ther are at least the Israeli and other assorted nation hostages. Many of which are Jewish. So…
Also: I believe the IDF’s goal at this point is also to make sure the population of Gaza won’t ever grow again…
My point was that 2 million Palestinian Israeli citizens live and prosper, though according to “thah genocide” folks, should be gradually disappearing…
And, while I don’t have stats, but I believe Palestinians in the West bank under PA rule enjoy higher standard of living compared to Gazans, despite having much less international funds funneled to them - but I may be in the wrong here.
… I mean, that number went down by about 8000 in the past couple weeks. So while that is not in the slightest bit “gradual”, they are “disappearing” at the rate at which people can bury or burn the bodies.
Also, isn’t customary to wait until AFTER the war to start denying genocide?
I was speaking about Palestinian Israeli citizens, those that live inside Israel, learn in universities in Jerusalem/Tel Aviv/Haifa, work in law, pharmacies, hospitals or retail, pay Israeli taxes etc etc. Not about Gazans or West bank.
It may be a false dichotomy, but it is also two contradictory positions held by the both groups in this conflict.
