The same organization is making it very clear that this is not proof because they only have publicly available Intel.
The group cited several clips believed to be of the explosion from different sources and claimed the “geolocation and timing of the footage is conclusive”. However, they said their conclusions are not “proven fact”.
“That doesn’t mean that they are THE truth, just what we think is highly likely based on our geolocations(facts) and logic/reason,” they wrote on Twitter.
“We are geolocators, not official investigators… To be sure what really happened, different official investigations are needed.”
Israel and the US have more intelligence that could definitely prove what happened…
But for some reason they aren’t releasing it. Most logical reason is it shows Israel launched it, or blew up the hospital while trying to shoot a rocket down.
If it cleared Israel, that satellite footage would be out by now. Gaza is too tiny for me to believe Israel just wasn’t surveiling it at the time.
You think intelligence agencies would release primary source data that could reveal collection methods and fidelity to other nation state intelligence agencies just to win PR points?
There’s only one individual I can think of that would do something like that, and he’s currently facing charges relating to his handling of classified materials.
Are you talking about former president Donald Buttcheeks?
Is that really the most logical conclusion to be drawn? It’s been less than a day, and I would really hope intellegince services are more diligent than your average twitter sleuth. Id rather they be right than first, personally.
Also what satellite footage are you talking about?
You dont think Israel has satellites looking at Gaza?
It’s a very very small area, and missiles/rockets are more than visible enough. It should be really easy to see if it came from Israel or further in Gaza.
Hamas doesn’t have satellites, so it makes sense they can’t offer proof.
If Israel wants people to believe them in 2023, they need to understand they’ve already burnt up their benefit of doubt.
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Bro 1 quick google search and you have a satellite image of the hospital. Ya’ll just don’t wanna believe anything Israel says at this point.
Yes…
Google maps is a thing, but Israel and the US has live satellite coverage. I guarantee Israels is pointed in that area
And again One quick google search brings you to satellite pictures of the damage published by Israel (and also by other non biased news sources) Just search for it, please. I understand you have your agenda but come on don’t let it hide truths and evidence.
Have you also considered the crab people ?
I don’t understand. Ya’ll think Israel is gonna burn an intelligence asset they have by making it public just so people who are already convinced by one narrative (because underdogs are always easier to support) have proof of one attack not being their own? They have better use for that intelligence. Like fighting a war.
Yeah the original claims seemed as likely to be true as all the times that terrorists fought to take credit for disasasters that didn’t involve them. It’s quick easy points in fast moving propaganda campaigns. That being said I have seen this fricking twitter thread of internet sleuths used like 4 times and called different things and we keep passing around the same short clip and the complete nonsense arguments.
No I don’t think anyone can say anything about this other than a hospital in gaza was partially blown up like many others and people are still suffering while aid is being kept at arms length from the victims. That’s the real story and I don’t care who did it until real intelligence has something to say on the matter.
https://twitter.com/GrantSmithEllis/status/1714399186295111815?t=wxkjKFCi8k2oZ0FTiwxV1g&s=19
10-minute video captured by AJArabic around the time the al-Ahli hospital was hit.
As per @Ted55643099:
Explosions on this video: (0:19) hospital. (0:16, 4:25, 4:49) behind and to the left of the hospital. (5:33, 5:56, 9:26, 10:46) behind hospital, most likely the same place. (9:38, 10:51) to the right of the hospital outside of the frame, likely the same place.
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Once this is backed up by a reputable news source, I’ll believe it. It’s unfortunate but I can’t argue with facts if adequate evidence and vetting is presented. I still hate Israel with every fiber in my body. From the river to the sea.
Crosspost from a similar thread:
So this here is the current view on the area where supposedly about 500 people died. Also there are allegedly more than 300 wounded.
Questions I personally have:
- where is the rubble and where is the bomb crater?
- why does the building seem undamaged?
- how do you fit 800 people in this parking lot?
Well Israel has dropped more bombs this week alone than the entire Afghan war, so it isn’t obscene to think the few hospitals left standing are overcrowded by the thousands. If OSINT is to be believed, it hit the parking lot and wiped out that many people, its a pretty fucking big parking lot. And if it was Hamas, they do not have as powerful of payloads as Israel, so I would assume they were just too weak to collapse the building.
Also it’s unclear how many people died.
While I can’t take Hamas’ word at face value, I also can’t forget that many people who are not Israeli have a vested interest in spreading misinformation. Why did Israel change it’s story so many times immediately following? Can IDF not launch missiles from inside Gaza? The article mentions this ordinance has been used by Hamas before, when? How is Hamas able to smuggle missiles into Gaza, which has been described as a locked down prison with hundreds of checkpoints?
This is an incredible claim and I expect incredible proof.
My man, this current conflict started with Hamas launching ~2,500 missiles at Israel. Israel famously has the Iron Dome system to shoot down the missiles that have been coming from Gaza, the West Bank, and Lebanon for years. It is not at all an incredible claim that Hamas and other anti-Israel groups in Palestine have missiles; it’s well-proven fact. Here’s an info-graphic of the different types of missiles Hamas was known to have as of 2021.
The iron dome doesn’t extend into Gaza right? So it wasn’t a rocket interception?
Thanks friend, you’re a good fella. I understand the Iron Dome is a rocket defense system, there’s just a difference between missiles and rockets.
Not sure why you added “there’s just a difference between missiles and rockets”. There is a difference, but is not particularly relevant here. Many people mix up these terms anyway: the post you replied to mentions missiles but Hamas, as per linked graphic, probably only has rockets. It may matter to the iron dome system, as that relies on a predictable path of a rocket to decide what to target.
I added it because they are different. All news sources I saw said it was a missile that hit the hospital. It is reasonable to think that journalists will use the words that they mean. When a truck crashes into a building, I wouldn’t look at people who only have cars for the culprit.
Do you really think most journalists will know the difference, or think it matters?
Besides, guided munitions are frequently referred to as “rocket artillery” even by the military.
How is Hamas able to smuggle missiles into Gaza, which has been described as a locked down prison with hundreds of checkpoints?
my man, we literally saw them firing thousands of rockets into Israel, but this one is somehow unbelievable?
How is Hamas able to smuggle missiles into Gaza, which has been described as a locked down prison with hundreds of checkpoints?
there are huge tunnel systems under gaza…its quite crazy.
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incredible claim
Fuck the IDF and fuck Hamas but there isn’t anything incredible about it besides the fact that you don’t seem to like it
I have not seen Israel change it’s story, do you have a source for that
These are a few: https://twitter.com/MarkKersten/status/1714367614162702612, but they are saved all over if you don’t trust this random dude.
Do some more research. Check who that rando is. I debunked this tweet in like 20 seconds earlier in this thread
Who downvotes people for asking for sources, pathetic
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I find it interesting that this is being defended so vociferously, when so many people still needlessly died.
Well the first claims out by Hamas was 500+ dead and an Israeli airstrike.
Now we are learning it’s more like 20-50 dead, landed in the parking lot next to the hospital and was due to a failed Hamas/related groups rocket.
Yeah either way people died but the entire situation has greatly raised tension in the middle east. It could have been responsible for opening up another front of the war with Hezbollah.
Huh?
The quantity of innocent lives lost makes the correct identification of the culprit maximally important
No it doesn’t. The IDF will lie. Hamas will lie. Did it matter who blew up the Nordstream pipeline? At best, we’ll find out years from now, and, by then the world will have moved on, and it won’t matter.
Civilians died. It is critical to know how.
People aren’t a piece of infrastructure
Pretty sure it was a rocket/missile. I never said people were infrastructure.
Of course it was a projectile. That’s not in question. Knowing who launched it is the point.
You compared the investigation of Nordstream to this.
The standard and necessity is very different.
If Hamas launched it. Nothing changes. If the IDF did it. Nothing changes.
It absolutely matters, yeah people died but guess what, shit don’t end there.
If this is a verifiable attack from Israel it is a clear indicator a war crime and can be used to reduce support to Israel in this effort. Ya know what that could do? Reduce the number of people who will die
Just because someone died doesn’t mean it’s off limits to those that didn’t. What kind of brain dead take is that
No it doesn’t. Israel has committed war crimes leading up to this. Did the world stop that? How many lives did knowing that Israel committed war crimes save? Hamas committed war crimes. Did knowing that save lives? Did I mention that Israel is still committing war crimes? They bombed a school. They bomb the people fleeing. They shot people (including children) during a peaceful protest in 2018. Why didn’t the world care then? It’s that kind of brain dead take.
Wtf is “open sourced intelligence”? Is it another name for “armchair internet sleuths”?
There is literally a definition in the article…
Open-Source Intelligence (OSINT) is defined as intelligence produced by collecting, evaluating and analysing publicly available information.
So like when Reddit found the Boston Bomber, gotcha.
I’ll take this with a grain of salt.
Not really, because even some news stations now access this public available data and checked it with their sources. Good example would be Bucha where those sources were used to verify the crimes that happend there. But yeah of course you always need a trustful source which uses this data.
Good starting point is to go to official news pages and avoid social media like twitter, Reddit or even lemmy until those news is proven.
Big fucking difference but sure if it’s not an individual hired directly by some govt it must be akin to a redditor!
Give me a fuckin break
Example of the power of OSINT: https://www.isdglobal.org/digital_dispatches/jan-6-series-how-osint-powered-the-largest-criminal-investigation-in-us-history/
Law enforcement also used geofence data (obtained via search warrant) and flight records to place her at the Capitol riot. Indeed, charging documents show that many of the January 6 defendants were identified by law enforcement using these triangulation methods — largely based on OSINT — to piece together proof that they were involved. The challenge of the reliability of OSINT data was able to be overcome through the large amount of digital evidence available.
Have you actually ready any of it yourself? Or are you just passing armchair judgement based solely on headlines?
Just because you don’t understand doesn’t mean it’s all bullshit.
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It’s genuine intel but needs to be verified thoroughly. I will believe it once it hits reputable news sources.
Which are? For example in Germany the Tagesschau is a quite reputable source and they are also using these OSINT sources to back the story up.
Reuters, NPR, NYT. I’m not going to deny facts, I would just like to be sure. Israel has enough war crimes for me to hate them over.
